Donna: With the explosion of popularity of podcasts, one of the best growth strategies for your business could be being a guest on other people's podcasts. I know it's certainly a strategy that I, myself and many other successful business owners use to get their services and products into the ears of their ideal customers.
And for those potential customers to get to know, like, and trust you without even meeting you. Which is great if your customer base extends well beyond the place that you live, being a guest on other people's podcasts can be a little nerve wracking, but the benefits to bringing more awareness to your brand is well worth it.
But a lot of people don't know how to approach a host about being a guest. What makes a good guest? How can you prepare yourself to add the most value possible? My guest on the podcast this week is Christina Lenkowski our podcast pitch pro, she loves helping underrepresented businesses step into the spotlight by being a guest on other people's products.
I've brought her on today to share her wisdom, see that you can feel comfortable about being a podcast guest. I hope after today's episode, you'll feel ready to step out of your comfort zone and go and give it a try.
Thanks for tuning to the She's In Business podcast. I'm your host Donna Hann and today I'm joined by the lovely Christina Lenkowski. Hi Christina.
Christina: Hello, Donna.
Donna: A warm Aussie welcome to the podcast.
Christina: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I am so excited to be talking to your audience today. You know, I love my Aussies, so I enjoy talking to everyone.
I actually think that it's pretty cool to be able to give a little bit of a different perspective on something. Yeah. I'm based in the States, and kind of what I see over here. Yeah.
Donna: And you're my first guest from the States, so yeah. So your extra cool.
Christina: Okay. Okay. Yes. I love it.
Donna: So, the purpose behind the She's In Business podcast is not just to share a business insight and knowledge and strategy. Although we do a lot of that.
But it's also about sharing the journey of other women in business, because I find that personally, it's really interesting. I love it. But also I think it's refreshing to learn about the different ways, the many different ways that women grow, the business to be really successful and to grow themselves in that space.
So I'd like to kick off the podcast and invite you to share with us your business journey if you would.
Christina: Yeah, absolutely. My background is really like before I started working, was in writing. Like I was a journalist and I was the editor of the paper at my college. I was a writing major, all this type of stuff.
And after I traveled, I traveled the world for a year before I move back home. And I'm originally from Portland, Oregon on the west coast. So I moved back home. I got two job offers. One was at a newspaper as a copy editor, and one was for a comics company in PR public relations. I decided to go with the latter just because I'm a very outgoing person.
I want to be around people. I didn't necessarily want to be cooped up in a cubicle every night, editing a newspaper. So I went that way. And I just truly fell in love with PR over the months and years to come. I worked for agencies for companies like Cirque de Solei to I Robot to just huge company, a little mom and pop.
Yeah. Which was amazing. And then it is funny side note. When I tell people I used to work with Cirque de Solei, they're like, oh my God, what'd you do? And I'm always like, oh, I was just like a tumbler, takes them a second. And I'm like, I'm just getting, I just did like event marketing. I was like, are you kidding me?
Like a foot taller than every tumbler that ever existed, because I've been to so many shows and been backstage and stuff. They're like, I know that they're just tiny little people. Um, jealous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I love getting people that line, they always were like, oh, and I'm like the late night. I'm like, no, no, but anyways, I got to work on these amazing things, travel all over the country, do all that good stuff.
And then. I was working for an agency, a PR agency in the town that I live in now, a Boise, Idaho, when I had my, I was a senior account, exact. So I managed a lot of different accounts. And when I had my daughter Beatriz in 2014, I was like, okay, I'm not interested in doing this full time anymore.
So we tried to do it part-time. Like they tried to work with me to scale it back to doing it, part-time but to be a senior account exec, like in a, for a PR agency, like it just doesn't really work. To do it half time. You need to be there for your clients and stuff like that. So I decided to go off on my own and for about a year or so, I didn't really do much of anything.
I took on a couple like writing jobs that people would write me about. But other than that, I was kind of like, And then I just started to have more and more people write me and be like, could you take on this PR? And I was specifically, my focus was tourism. So tourism was like my area of expertise and what I really, really love.
And so in 2017, I decided to start my own business and I did an online course about media for tourism. All that type of stuff. I did all that suffice to say it flopped. Like I did my first launch. I think it sold like five things, stuff like that. I mean, I was excited for those five. I was excited to take those people through, but I was definitely like, okay, I don't know if this is good, like what's going to happen.
I continue to work on that business. And I was working on it for a couple of years, relaunching, growing, a membership, all types of things, speaking all over the U S at tourism conferences, then COVID hit. When COVID hit, I was one of those people. I don't know how some of you out there are. And I know a lot of you were in Australia and you had a very different experience than we did in the U S but I was like, this ain't gonna go well, like I knew tourism was, was going to take a huge hit.
And I was like, this isn't the time for me to be doing this? Like, no one is traveling and right now, no one is looking to get featured in magazine. Like people that are getting featured in magazines or like no one cares, like they're obviously caring about other stuff, whatever. So it was around this time that I had actually for that prior business started booking myself on podcasts.
So I was going on shows regularly. Talking about the work that I did. And it was amazing. I was seeing people that were joining my list, people that were just purchasing right off the bat, they heard me on something. And then they're like, oh, that's really cool. And I would just get a sale, even people. I actually distinctly remember this, even tourism entities in Australia that had heard me on a, some kind of show.
And they were like, I actually remember this because I have a funny story about kangaroos that I can tell you later if you want. But she was like, oh my God, I heard your story. And I was like dying. And then I looked at your stuff and then I. Yes, I want it. And so that type of stuff was happening. And I was like, no one is talking about what publicity can do for your business.
Everyone talks about ads and they talk about social media and those things are important. I'm not saying that they're not, they weren't including publicity or that kind of outreach in the conversation as much. And so that's what. You know, really the beginning of 2020 is when I pivoted my business to do what I do now.
And it's grown over time. It started as me doing a course and just teaching and stuff like that. And now I'm pretty much 95% of our business is built on service.
Donna: Well, that's fantastic because it really,
Christina: I felt like that was really long-winded. I'm sorry, but you got the whole thing with you in that.
Donna; I think of people who built this amazing business, but then they're missing that component of their marketing strategy, which is PR.
And so that's why I got you on the podcast, because I think I know certainly for me listening to podcasts for years until I started my own, that's where I was like, oh, they're cool. I like what I do. I'm going to go and check them out and then naturally goes, right. So tell us about the explosion of podcasts in the last few years.
And why do you think that's happening?
Christina: Yeah. I mean, I, as Donna knows, I looked up some, uh, Australia based stats before this call, but really, even more so than in the U S percentage-wise more people in Australia are listening to shows now than they were a couple of years ago. At this point, I think it's something, I think the stats said like one in three Australians prefer to get their media through podcasts.
And that was not the case in 2019, early 2020, but it definitely wasn't quite that high in the same in the U S to be fair, the numbers have also gone up a lot. Um, here as well. I think a huge reason for that is COVID, people want to feel a connection to someone listening to a podcast. They feel like they're connected to that host or that guest or whatever.
It's also something that as a podcast host or as a guest you can do from your home. So people didn't have to be venturing out. But to go to a studio or to go do XYZ. They were just able to do that from their home, thanks to all the amazing technology that we have. People like to be able to do things like one of the reasons why podcasts are so popular is the fact that you don't have to watch something.
And for a lot of people, that's a big plus. Like they want to go on a walk, they want to go on a drive. They want to do whatever. They listen to a podcast personally. That's true for me. I was just coming home from a coffee shop and I was listening to a podcast like that just kind of naturally happened.
That is kind of the main reasons why podcasting has really flourished in the past few years has just been, again, people wanting to have that connection. People realizing that a lot of people don't want to sit and watch a video about something. They just want to be able to pop it in. Like they're doing laundry or they're going on a walk or they're running to the grocery store.
Get whatever information they want, whether that's business sports, true crime, it doesn't matter, but whatever they enjoy listening to.
Donna: I totally agree. And I think one of the things that I also love about podcasting and being a speaker up like a guest on a podcast is that you're really expanding the awareness of your brand to potential customers.
I want to kind of dig into that with you a bit more today. The services and the products that you offer, getting that awareness out there through podcasting can be really, really powerful. Can you share with us, you mentioned before we were talking, you were, like I said, most of the people who listen to the podcast as service or a product based businesses, you're like, that's better.
I was like, oh, wow. Okay. So let's dig into that. Why do you think that's better?
Christina: Yeah, I mean, I think the great thing about it personally, even for myself as a service provider going on shows, is that all you really need is one person to reach out to you after that's interested in your services, right? Like you're not necessarily feeling pressured about like a ton of volume.
It's more so that the connection that you made with the host and with the audience is deeper. And this is what happens to me all the time. People will hear me on a podcast interview and then they'll DM me or they'll send me an email or this and that. They don't even necessarily go and sign up for anything like a list or anything like that.
Theyr more, so just like, Hey, I heard you on whatever really, really liked what you had to say. Like, can I book a discovery call that type of thing. And so that's why I think for service providers in particular and coaches and things like that, doing this type of work works really, really, really well because you're more focused on getting in front of the right people as opposed to a huge amount of people.
Donna: With that in mind. Let's talk about, like, if you're thinking about becoming a guest on a podcast, obviously, you've just said that I agree with you that it's about carefully choosing who to pitch to and on the upside, is that being keen as a bean and saying yes to everything. So what should you look for as far as where if you're wanting to pitch to somebody to be on their podcast as a guest.
How do you choose the right type of audience to put yourself in front of what's the strategy there?
Christina: Yeah. So there's a few different things that I really recommend. And first and foremost is just ask your audience. So throw it up on your social media, put it at the PS of your e-newsletter. Hey, what are you guys listening to?
What is it that you've gotten your earbuds these days? And that should give you a couple shows that you might be able to take a look at. Now, of course, people are going to send you stuff that makes no sense. Now, a lot of my audience knows that I'm a true chrime fan, so they do send me true crime stuff, which I'm always here for.
You'll find some shows that you maybe won't have heard of before that you already know your ideal customer is hanging out with, right? Like they're listening to that. The other thing that I really recommend doing is going into apple podcast. Um, which is my preferred tool of choice for research going in there typing in a competitor's name.
And I don't even mean a competitor that you like, oh, they're not competitive. Not at all. Just someone that has a similar ideal customer to you. That could be another service writer, it could be a course creator, it could be whatever. But putting their name in and seeing where they been a guest on shows before.
That's kind of a really great spot for you to start doing your research. You can scroll down to the bottom and see shows that are like those shows. I also recommend reaching out to shows that your competitors have already been on and just acknowledging that someone was already on to talk about XYZ, loved the conversation.
And now you'd like to take the audience to the next level.
Donna: That's a fantastic idea. Really fantastic. And you mentioned about knowing your ideal customers. I just want to draw our attention to that for our listeners for a second. Because I see, and I talk to people who they think they know who their ideal customer is, but they don't have a really deep knowledge and understanding of it.
So if you're listening and you're thinking I do roughly have an idea, or maybe it's like, I have no idea. If you're interested, I do have a really great mini workbook that you can go through and you can work out who your ideal customer avatar is. And then you can take on the steps that Christina has just mentioned about looking to, see, what those audiences are and start to see if you can pitch to those people. So I'll put that in the show notes, because traditionally thinking business podcasts associated with business coaches like myself, like, you know, many of the ones that I listened to, I guess what I listened to is business coaches, but thinking outside the box.
If you have a product-based business that you can use for podcasting to position yourself as an expert in that particular area related to that particular line, and I was sort of like thinking about that in preparing for the podcast today. I recently listened to a podcast interview. About the journey of a new business owner.
Because like I said, at the beginning, I find that really fascinating. And through that, I learned that she sold eco-friendly products that were compostable posts settles, and I didn't need them at that point in time, but I've booked back to that. And I went and looked her up and I bookmarked it and that's what I'll buy next time I need them.
So if you have a product based business and you're listening to the source service-based business, you know, think outside the box a little bit. I know that for many years, as a dance studio owner, which is my service-based bricks and mortar business, I would be a guest on podcasts where I'd write articles, where I talk about ways to build confidence in children and social skills in children.
And the unique, unique ways that you can do that, which we do through dancing, what's we've always excelled at. And so by talking about the benefits of why you do what you do, why you teach in a particular way, or why you produce your products in a particular way that aligns with values with our core values, that's how you can lift the profile of your business.
Do you agree with that?
Christina: Oh a hundred percent. Yes, absolutely.
Donna: So if you are unsure about what your ideal customer avatar is, I'm going to put the show notes in, uh, put the link to that mini workbook in the show notes for you, go through it and, you know, have a look and start to think outside the box of ways that you can put yourself in front of those people.
I think that's, yeah. It's something that you can really work well with what Christine is bringing to the podcast today, but also you need to dig deep into that area as well.
Christina: Yeah. The point. I want to say that Donna is also saying so important is you have to have strategy behind this work. You don't want to go on every single show, right?
Like any show that you come across, things like that. And that's not to say that if you have a buddy that has a podcast and you're like, oh, that'd be fun to go on their show and do whatever, like do it a hundred percent. I'm all here for it. When it comes to building a business, you need to be strategic about, who exactly you're getting in front of what shows you're getting on. And I want to be clear that the size does not matter. So as long as it's full of your ideal customer, whether that's 50 people or 5,000 people, in my opinion, that is worth an hour of your time to hop on drop some knowledge. And I have actually found from some of the smaller interviews that I've done, more outreach from people that were listening, because again, they were just that exact right customer and they really, really trust that host.
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So, let's recap. We've included podcast guesting as a bit of a marketing strategy for building that awareness and credibility. And we've identified our ideal customer avatar. And then we've looked for those podcasts that share the same interview, or we've looked for competitors who have been on the type of podcast that we could put ourselves in for.
And we figured out what the value is that we can add. Now tell us how we peach. Like we've got this idea that like, yes, we want to get in there. Is there a technique? Is there like social etiquette that we need to do the do's and don'ts can you talk to us about that?
Christina: Here's the thing that I will say. And I don't know, Donna, if you have experience with this with people pitching your show, but according to most of my buddies that have podcasts, 95% of the pitchers they get are absolute trash.
And so, and I don't say that to scare you. I say that to mean, if you send a solid pitch, it gets noticed. And that's what I've built my business on. And I think that's something that people overlook. They just think like, oh, I'll get my hands off a template, all just copy and paste that. And I'll send it off to a host.
And I'm here to tell you no, that is not the best way for you to go about doing that because you're not going to get the results that you want.
Donna: I had someone pitch to me just last week.
Christina: Tell me, oh my God. I love hearing these horror stories. Yes.
Donna: Go on. Go on. Yes, it's relatively new, right? Uh, it was, I think August, September, last year that we started.
So I've just started to get a little bit used pitches. And one of them was like a lady who wanted to come on and talk about horses because she like cares for horses and is a horse expert. And I'm like, I'm not seeing the correlation of how this is so random.
Christina: That is a great point. I want to make this clear to your listeners is you need.
To bring the value as the guest. And that's what you need to show and who you need to be thinking about is not, oh, I'm going to get out there and talk about what I do. I'm going to get out there and bring value to Donna's audience. I'm going to get out there and bring value to this host audience and you need to be coming up with solid, topic ideas. This is something that I see happen over and over again, where I think people, I truly think that they think they're trying to make it easier for the host by just saying like, here's some things that I'm an expert on and then dropping it in a couple of bullet points that is not helpful for the host.
When we pitch, and what I recommend in pitching is you send them two to three, absolutely rock, solid topic ideas, and nine times out of 10, in fact, 9.9 times out of 10, they choose one of those topics. You're making it clear that it's something that you're going to be able to specifically help their audience with.
You know, what's our problem that our audience has. So go in there with solid topic ideas. Like this lady has a horse business. And I, you know, I don't know this lady from anybody. That's fine if that's what she's doing, but she needs to make the correlation for Donna about why she makes sense as a guest on the show.
If she doesn't don't even waste your time, you need to be being thoughtful and sending out pitches that again are really going to have the hosts sit up and take notice
Donna: And then if we get the thumbs up. But yes, we've been accepted as a guest, how do we then prepare for the interview? What makes for a really great guest?
Christina: A few things. One is, I always recommend listening to an episode of the show the day before, or the day of your interview. So it doesn't have to be like the latest episode. Sometimes I'll go back six months, like find something that I'm really interested in and listen to it, enjoy it. But what that does is, I mean, hopefully I've already listened to it before, before I pitched, but it just really gets me pumped up.
Like for the interview, like, I'm like, okay, I'm ready. Like, I know Donna going to want to talk about this. I know we're going to want to go over this. Like, and now I'm just ready to get going. So I think doing that is a huge, huge plus before you get on.
The other thing that you want to make sure you have ready to go is whatever your call to action is going to be.
That makes a really good guest if like at the end of the show, most hosts are going to be like, okay, great, so where can our audience find you? And you're ready to go. You're ready to be like, they can find me at X, Y, Z, or they can find me on social media here, whatever it is, whatever is the beginning of your funnel, but you're just totally locked in, ready to go, you know exactly where you're going to be sending people.
And it's one thing.
Donna: Because otherwise it's kind of wasting, we're not wasting your time because obviously you're getting your brand out there, which is great. But if you haven't got somewhere where people can then go and find you, then that time that you spent pitching and that time that you spent preparing for the interview and then doing the interview.
Yeah. It's sort of not really a good use of your time if you, especially for a lot of the people listening to the podcast here are mums, right? So we're busy, juggling all the different things and we want to be making sure that we're intentional about the way that we're using our time.
Christina: And then finally, the last thing I would say is the, what I think makes a great guest and what I always preach and everything like that.
Like when Donna and I hit and on this recording, I'm going to thank her and I'm going to be coming from a place of gratitude because I know a lot of you out there have never put together a podcast. It is a lot of work, a lot of work, and it is a lot of work. And one thing to be clear is I'm not paying Donna to be on the show.
So this is work, that's what publicity is, is, I mean, you don't pay, it's earned media. Like that's not what it is. It's not an ad. Donna's doing all this work because it builds up her business that gives her audience value, things like that, but it takes a lot. And so I always, always, always want to be looking with an attitude of gratitude.
Like about these podcast interviews. So of course I'm going to be thanking her, but then I'm going to be like, how can I help you? Do you have a membership? You want me to teach in a masterclass? Do you want to do an Instagram live when this episode goes? Which actually I know you do because you have that in your packet because I pay attention y'all I will suggest that to people, even if they didn't have it in their packet, I'd be like, do you want to do this?
And just the relationship with the host, you guys, almost more than your relationship with the audience. I have had some amazing partnerships, amazing things come out of having a host that I click with. And that again, I just go with that, a service over self promotion attitude.
Donna: I love that. And I also tried my best well, if I've been a guest on a podcast is to share their social media. So if they've put up something about promoting that episode, then I'm like sharing it wherever I can, because like you said, it is so much work I've actually spent during the summer hours upon hours trying to get my system for podcasting really streamlined because it takes so much time. Oh my goodness. It takes so much time. And so I love that you're putting that out there because you know, there is so much effort that goes into it. So help to promote that episode to your audience, that then it's like that beautiful love that happens.
Christina: Yeah, I love that you said that because I will say that as a huge pet peeve of podcast hosts that I hear all the time.
It's like I do this episode. I even send them assets to put it up on their page and they never do. They never share it. Like they never do these things. And you guys that is like baseline stuff that you should be doing. Again, as a bank, you to the host to getting it out in front of your audience, but also my clients that really take those interviews and share them repeatedly, cut them up into snippets and share those snippets repeatedly XYZ.
That's where they've had amazing opportunities come their way because they continue to share the episode over and over again.
Donna: Before we go, it's been a pleasure talking to you. I want to know the story about the kangaroo. You mentioned at the beginning.
Christina: I know. I forgot that. I said that. Yeah. Well, I'm going to sound pretty much like an American idiot when I tell this story, but that's okay.
I'm here, I'm here for it. I told Donna before we have done that, like, it's been really interesting since I've been a part of an Australian mastermind and stuff like that. I've really gotten to know Australia a lot more than I ever did before. You know, growing up in the states, like of course I knew Australia was there.
But I didn't really know much about it. And people, when they talk about kangaroos, I honestly, you guys, this is no joke. I thought that they were a made up animal. Like I thought that it was like the unicorn, like that's like what I thought kangaroos, like in time was way too old to think this like way too old to think this.
And I remember someone saying. Uh, they made a mention about a kid that like, yeah, I was in Australia and like, we saw these kangaroos and like good one. Like, I totally like that, that they were like messing with me or like joke at me. And they're like, no, they're like everywhere. And I was like, they aren't real.
Uh, excuse me. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. And I, and then I found, and then I like looked it up and I was like, oh my God, they are real. Like, these are a real thing that exists. Like, I, this is so embarrassing, but I had, I just thought like, cause I, you know, I don't know. Are they anywhere else in the world?
Donna: I didn't know, actually, I don't think so. I have some in my backyard all the time like that.
Christina: So my good friend who we know Roz will send me photos of that. She's heard this story before and she'll send me photos. Like, you know what her son's school or this or that. I mean, I obviously believe they exist now, but I, I really, for a long, long time was like, oh no, that's.
That's not a real thing.
Donna: So now that you've shared this story, now that you shared this story on the podcast, you might get some randoms who are listeners sending you pictures of kangaroos.
Christina: I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. I actually heard they're more annoying than anything. That's what people, the people I know.
Donna: Sometimes they're massive, you know, and you're a little bit scared to go anywhere near them in case you get a boot from one of them. But if people, if people want to send you pictures of kangaroos, where can they find you?
Christina: I love that segway. It's beautiful. You can find me on social media at Publicity X Christina, it's, Christina with a C H and then I also have a really fun quiz at podcastpublicityquiz.com.
That's where you can kind of determine what might be the next best step for you. Like if it would be. DIY doing your pitching or maybe having the publicity by Christina team help if that's the level that you are at.
Donna: Well, I will make sure that I put all of those in the show notes. And yet I encourage you as a listener start exploring these opportunities because they're all out there for the taking and really making sure that your marketing strategy includes podcasting because it's such a powerful, as Christina said at the beginning, like it's growing so much and I think it will continue to grow.
Having listeners tunning in, you've got their full attention be in their ears for, you know, 20 minutes, half an hour, whatever it is. So there's a lot of opportunity there in building that brand awareness and your credibility. So thank you so much for being on the show today and thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the She's In Business podcast.
Make sure you check out the show notes for anything extra. I talked about today. If you liked the episode, make sure you subscribe and I'd love it if you left me a review, even better, share it with a friend, because what I really want is to help women in business feel supported on their business journey, share it on socials, tag me so that I can give your business a shout out to.
