Donna: My guest is Nicole Hatherly and award-winning global brand strategist profile specialist, business storyteller, international keynote speaker, guest, facilitator, and creator of global personal by a professional brand program Brand Your Way. For over 28 years, Nicole has delivered award-winning strategies and campaigns for iconic brands, global organizations, influential thought leaders and businesses leaders. As you're hearing the podcast, Nicole superpower is guiding you to align your vision, articulate your value and amplify your voice for impact and legacy.
In our chat today, Nicole demonstrates her superpowers in the way that she unearthed brand magic. She goes to work on me in this episode and together we uncover my signature story map and what Nicole refers to as my origin story.
It's a podcast which I think will inspire you to dig into your own signature story map. Now before we kick off next week, I've got something really exciting for you. On Tuesday, the 8th of March, I'm opening the doors to my signature program, Ready To Rise. It's a program specifically designed for moms in business that will take you from feeling like an overwhelmed entrepreneur, feeling alone and exhausted and on the road to burnout.
To thriving as a business owner, feeling energized, inspired, and ready to grow your business in alignment with a healthy work-life blend to be present with your family and to honor your own self care needs. If you're ready to rise to the next level. And if you're a mum that's made for more, then make sure you check it out.
When the doors open on Tuesday, the 8th of March, you can head to donnahann.com for more information. Now let's get started with the podcast and chat to Nicole Hatherly.
Hello and welcome to the podcast. I am your host, Donna Hann. And today I'm joined by the beautiful, charismatic and super knowledgeable global brand strategist, Nicole Hatherly. Welcome to the podcast Nicole.
Nicole: No pressure. Thanks Donna, I'm so excited to be here.
That gorgeous intro!
Donna: Nicole, whenever I welcome a guest to the podcast, I like to start, by inviting you to share who you are and also a little bit about your business journey, because there is no right way, no one way to go about building a business from zero to success. And I think that it's great to share the varied and interesting journey that we go through to build our business over the years.
And you've been in business for a long time. And. I would love you to first introduce yourself and then take us back to the beginning of your journey as to how you came to do what you're doing now.
Nicole: Ah, that's and it is such a interesting journey. So as you said, I'm Nicole Hatherly, and I am a global brand strategist, or what I say is a global brand catalyst.
So really working with professional experts to align their vision and then articulate their value and then to amplify their voice. And so I do that for big global organizations and I do that, one-on-one in my hate to hate business or my human to human business, which is brand your way.
And I'm working with a lot of small business micro business, and majority women in business as well is my sweet spot, but where I started, geez, I've been in business for myself for about five years, but I've been in the business of brand and marketing and big digital social communities for the past 28 years, donna, I started young for the past 28 years and it wasn't so much a squiggly line.
I started in agency land and that was in the heady nineties. So a young gun moved from Canberra to Sydney. So this was the big smoke for me and started working in one of the big agencies, Leo Burnett. And I was there for eight years. And this was in the time when direct marketing just came to Australia at get a set of state.
But the real kind of personalized marketing and it hit. And Leo Bennett was probably one of the premier agencies. And then through there I grew into brand and grew into acquisition and became a master of those. So I was an account director when I left. And I went to the dark side client side and I never looked back.
Client side was totally different. And my first role was heading up the brand and acquisition machine that had Foxtel. And so you can head to the joys I had with the whole brand of Fox tail and then Fox footy and all these sub brands within it. For the first time, I only had to look after one brand. So in agency I was leading big brands like Subaru and Acer and JC Penny out of the states, amex.
And I had a lot of brands on my agenda, but I was like, oh, I only have to really champion and cheerlead one brand. This is awesome. Yeah. So I did that for a number of years until I jumped into Commonwealth bank and I jumped over to Commonwealth bank to take up a role that was to launch the brand of COMSEC online.
So self-directed investing, it was big, then it had a market share, nothing like it had happened in Australia. So I had no competitors imagine a brand, with no competitors, it was just straight. Um, it was really interesting. I think it was the first time that I felt that I had to jump back in my box chocolate.
I was kind of at the top of my tree and in executive management and brand, and I suddenly went to CommBank and it was financial services. I was 38 at the time. And I hadn't really been in this digital thing. So it was that 15 years ago now. And I hadn't been in this digital thing. What was this digital, you know, performance and search and marketing and what was this self-directed investing?
I knew my stuff about brand, but I knew nothing about the digital world. And I knew nothing about a financial services brand and I sat there and cried for the first three days. I'm like, how am I going to get from here to this massive celebrated launch that everyone's looking to me for? And I just really crumbled in that moment.
I remember those first three days, just kind of sitting in my chick and suffice to say 10 years in that business. I was five years. I did launch. I launched with celebration. I put everything into it down a bit far out that imposter syndrome. I knew that someone was going to tap me on the back and go. You have a chicken Foxtel. I just go, yeah, you're in the wrong state. You said that was a really big lesson in really digging deep and finding my own brand within that and knowing what my talents and skills were relatable, I might not have ever done, digital and financial services or been leading a team. I didn't really know anything about it. I might not have done that, but I had done a hell of a lot that I could transfer those skills. And once I cottoned onto that and could actually confidently market myself within there and get a personal brand that was strong in there.
I went argh there's something in this. And so 10 years I was in executive management at Comm bank. The last five years, I was part of an incredible business called women in focus. It was an external facing community still is, but women in business. So I was looked after the connection across digital platforms for that 80,000 women in business, across Australia.
And so understanding how I could, again, transfer my skills from digital marketing to digital publishing to tell the stories of these women. So that they could flourish in their business. And I was also started going around Australia, speaking on stages as to what that success looks like and how important connection, information and inspiration was to a woman's journey as which she was in business, especially when she has a family or was turning her hobby into a business.
We were very passionate. About making sure the landscape was conducive for them. And then I realized I could do this myself by a brand. So I jumped out of there and brand true north. My digital brand agency was born five years later. Here I am, and I have brand your way. And my brand Nicole Hatherly brand catalyst is the brand that actually is the global keynote speaker in facilitator.
So I have three brands. They all sing from the same song book. No, one's confused. and it works like a trade.
Donna: Amazing. I love hearing stories like that. That show the journey, because like I said, at the beginning, there's no overnight success. It takes time. But the beautiful thing that I think everyone listening can take from it is that the skills that we learn, way back at the beginning of our career, or even the parts of our personality that are ingrained from the day that we are born, they all add up, they're all like the stepping stones to where you are now. And it's lovely to hear you speak about that and for us to get more of an insight into your journey.
So thank you so much. Oh,
Nicole: absolutely. And it's really important because people can see me on a global stage and people can be very, very kind and generous and, very positive about their experience of me, but they don't see the nights that I'm trying to feel something sliding down my wall with my makeup.
They don't see those moments just before that breakthrough, those moments are just before you break through like a Beijing myself, you're like a Pac-Man game.
Donna: As many women would relate to.
Nicole: It's just that you think a couple months ago, Oh, how did I do that? Um,
I love what you said there done, and we'll just go back before we go forward.
I have always been in the business of connecting and storytelling. That's been the core since I could talk. I've always been story. I remember setting the scene dramatically for my mum. Just asking if I could go out and play. Everything was a story. I connected people and I connected people to brands and stories, a real connector.
Once I hooked in to the business, I was really in not the role I was playing at any time that open up everything. And I, I'm very clear on my purpose in life. So finding out and understanding what business I'm really in and my purpose in life, and then how my roles and my business can actually be a conduit for that purpose.
That then is that genius. So that's been the flow. It doesn't mean you won't be sliding down the wall drinking or I'd stop crying and, but it makes more sense.
Donna: And I think too, when I talk about this within the Ready To Rise program in our module, one of the program is all about really uncovering why you do what you do and the true core purpose behind it, and also your core value. Because, like you said, no matter how successful you are in your business, there will be times when you will be on the floor crying and let's be dramatic about it. You know, there might be snow,
Nicole: You should see how dramatic. Ugly cry. The
Donna: thing is if we know what our true purpose is, if we've got a really clear understanding of what I call our heart centered values, then we can bounce back up.
And if we don't know what those are, it's so hard to get back up and have that resilience to try again. But if you know what they are, it's so much easier because you can give yourself, have you pity party, give yourself a bit of a slap and then get back up and go again.
Nicole: And that's the key. You never bounced back.
You always bounce forward. That's the key it's the forward facing and you can have a pity party just don't kick in, stay overnight or camp there a few days.
Donna: Yes. I love that. So let's talk about signature brand because you, learning more about you, you know, I've listened to a few of your lives that you've delivered through your social media platforms and things like that.
And I've also dug into some more of your stuff, which we'll talk about in a second. But your signature friends, being a catalyst for energizing your purpose, and I'm stealing your words and accelerating your identity and influence it. For those listening, who, when using this concept, can you unpack that and break that down for us into like really simple layman terms?
What does it mean by your signature brand? Being a catalyst for accelerating impact when it comes to you business?
Nicole: There's a lot of big words there. So that's us brand strategists and wordsmiths do. We make every word count and you have to unpack it. Let's do this. The best thing for me in business is that everyone's got a personal brand, so we'll never be out of business.
So what every single person has, not every single person had it, obviously, but when we're at a place, very fortunate space of being able to be in a role of being in business, we have a personal brand, whether we like It or not. Our choice at that point at any point, and everyone listening, think about yourself.
There's a point where we get to own the narrative. We get to own that personal brand, because if we don't own it, if we target off and go, I don't have one. It doesn't really matter. I'm not anyone I've just got a job or I'm just new in business. Or I'd like to hide behind my brand. Any of those usual suspects, then we're giving license to everyone else, to have their own narrative. So I impact a lot of people over a year, over the course of the year. And actually my mission is by 2025 to ignite 20,000 professional experts to amplify their voice through articulating their value. So there's a lot of people. I am on a mission to stand in front of. Now, if they've all got their own narratives of me, there's 30,000 narratives walking off and going, Hey, I saw this great speaker and then they're going to make up their own.
So it's really crucial, no matter what part of the lifecycle about. We own that narrative, right? So that's the first thing. Your personal brand is just a story. So if your personal brand is just a story, if we take personal out, this is real and everyone grab, grab a piece of paper and a pen. Remember that brand.
It's just a feeling that doesn't exist anywhere else, but in one person's mind and heart. So brand is just a feeling we're not talking about branding and the look and feel and your logo and what you look like in your life. So it's this feeling. So it's basically, my work is all around reputation and identity and that's all is.
And so you've really got to dig deep and go, oh, I'm effecting people, whether that's happy, sad, whether that you're affecting people, you get to choose what your brand is. And here's the four things that brands are. And no one talks about this first of all brands, and this is your personal brand, but also your professional brand.
And we'll talk about signature brand, bringing those two together. So brand, or every brand needs to be other focused. It's not about you. It's about them. It needs to be future focused. It's not a laundry list of a look back. It's a, what you want to do more of it has to be compelling and it has to be aspirational.
So it has to be other focused, future focused, compelling, and aspirational. So if your brand or your story, isn't that. Then we need to just rebrand and it's really actually quite simple to rebrand. Just think about when someone asks you this question, Donna, and I'm actually going to do this with you question without notice where at a, I don't know, a wedding, a barbecue, a bar mitzvah, wherever we are.
And we're just being injured. We've just been introduced and I go, and we haven't rehearsed this, anyone out there.
Hey, Donna, it's really lovely to meet you. So what do you do that question? Ah,
Donna: the question. Yes. Well, um, I am very lucky. I get to work with amazing women in.
Nicole: Ooh, that's good. What do you do with women in business? Well,
Donna: I help them go from feeling exhausted on the path to burnout, to transforming as a thriving business owner through.
So now I've gone mentally blank here. Yeah. I helped them transform by really understanding the business skills that go along with running a business. But not only that we look at integrating the three. So the savvy entrepreneurial business woman, the heart centered in the moment, mum, that has time for her family and also honoring the woman herself in having self care and being able to tune into what she wants.
So,
Nicole: Oh, boom. So right then there, I'm actually not listening to you. I'm hearing. I'm identifying with, oh, what are the three sides of me? She could help me, but actually she could help Sally Sue, Rebecca. So beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. A lot of people are in that situation and I'll go with their role. I'm a business coach and strategist.
Ah.
Donna: And then, Aw, oh, how'd you get into
Nicole: that? Oh, well at uni I studied psych and then I went from there and the story goes on. Right. So there is this default of I'll let you know what my role is in my career. And then I'll let you know what that say. If you ask me another question I'll I'll, I'll go back to a point in my.
And tell you a story from there. And it's usually a quite, I kind of linear chronological and somewhat uninspiring. But when you start with, I've got the best job in the world I reckon. And people walk in going far out. I've never heard anyone say that ever. This has got to be good. And then you say, and mine is really similar.
I've done it. I help professional experts. To I take like their value and they go, you know what part of articulate your value? So what do you do? Well, we align, we articulate and yet I'm really interested so they can see themselves in here. You've done your transition point. So I actually work with invisible experts, looking for more to transition them into visible experts are valuable executives and visionary and entrepreneurs so that they can make their impact and legacy.
So that's other focused future focused, compelling, and aspirational. People can see themselves in that pitch.
Donna: If you love the creativity, the challenge and the buzz of building and growing your own business, but you wish there could be some way to find a beautiful balance to avoid the path of burnout.
Then you need my framework. The ready to rise program will show you the path to integrating the three sides of you. The wicked smart business woman, the devoted present in the moment, mom and partner, and the grounded inspired and energized. I'll teach you the step-by-step strategies that will take your business to the next level and pave the way for you becoming the savvy business woman that, you know, you have the potential to be next week, Tuesday, the 8th of March doors will open to my program.
And so I'm hosting a series of free mini sessions so that you can get a feel for how I run the program and all of its benefits. If you want to join me for the daily mini sessions, then just head over to my install, Facebook pages, and I'll be there showing up daily live doors to the program close on Tuesday, the 15th of March.
So make sure you it in your diary because you don't want to miss.
Nicole: So signature brand, when we talk about our signature brand and I've got the beautiful magic of four here, I'm going to give you another four. Okay. I've got my son, got your pet. I can see. So we've got our personal brand. Now we know what a personal brand is, but personal brand is quite foreign to the millennials who are coming through into the workforce.
So the oldest millennials around 40 now, so they're not the young ones anymore. So by 2020.
So you have those millennials that we used to roll our eyes at, you're leading the business. And so, uh, by 20 25, 70 5%, the global workforce will be made up of you.
Donna: A statistic.
Nicole: I did manage millennials by trade and just by way of being brought up in a digital world. Personal brand. They actually struggled to understand what personal brand is.
The older ones kind of know that their parents had it or their older siblings, but they don't have a personal brand.
Donna: How has that shift
Nicole: come about? So easy to understand. So me, I'm not a millennial, so I'm a digital migrant. I will always be a digital migraine climate. The top of the pops in understanding digital plans.
But I have a digital migrant, your immigrant or migrant your digital native, every one of you, millennials listening here or have them. So when you're a native, it's your native language. So when you grew up Donner and younger millennials, you were online, you were connected and you were intrinsically a brand.
You didn't have to work out how you were going to show up what you stood for, what you didn't walk past and actually create a personal brand. So you were so. I don't have a personal brand. They are a brand, so they struggle with this. And then they've got to make the leap to, oh, how do I actually react and respond and show up in my professional life?
And you can see that they're quite authentic. They're quite, this is me. It doesn't matter if I'm at work or at home or with my friends and family. This is me. And that is the perfect essence of a signature brand. The signature brand is when your personal brand and your professional brand come together.
And there's two other PS. It is all then has a beautiful roof on top of it, which is your profile, your brand story that needs to be beautifully authentic, but it now has to be infused with you. Okay. And you can not be anything that purpose led in business anymore. People trust people who are purpose led people, hire people.
People want to work with people. There has to be that essence. So simply your signature brand is exactly what it says. It's you, it's your signature. And I love your signature to donor with your life. That is your signature brand.
Donna: I nearly didn't have to love hot. I nearly definitely it is me. And I think that's so interesting hearing you talk about that as being a millennial, because I think like, as a small child, like my family immigrated from England.
About five. And so my parents came to Australia. My dad had a trade. He was a cabinet maker, like very skilled at what he did, but they came to Australia knowing basically no one having no connections. And he started a business and it was a family business that he and my mom built up together. But I remember watching them and they, as you were talking, I'm like they did have a personal brand because there was no digital, it was all a little ads, print ads in the local newspaper.
And it was always a picture of mom and dad. Standing together. And it was always built around this family focused business, serving the local community and going above and beyond to serve them. And we, it was just, it was, that's what it was. It was a real personal brand. And this story was waved through that continuously, but they wouldn't have understood that that's what they were doing back then.
It was just the way it was done.
Nicole: Yeah. And I, and I love what you're talking about, the story, because when we at the heart of our brand at the heart of the signature brand, let's make no mistake. It's the story. So your brand, as in brand, we work with what's called a USP and you, you know what, this isn't many people will know.
So it's your unique selling proposition. And so we'd have to find that very quickly in any brand that we're just about to launch or the global stage. It's no different to a person. But when it comes to your most original value that you can share with others, no one else owns your story. It's the most powerful USP it's uniquely yours yet.
79% of us don't lead our brand or have our story in there. And I'll tell you why it's so challenging. To tell our own story. Everyone's challenged at telling our own story. The first reason, the main reason, and for everyone here who has children and it changes the way you will approach this with your children.
The main reason is we've never learned. We've never learned to tell our story. So it's kids growing up. We're not encouraged to tell our story or blow our own horn. We're conditioned to blend in and be liked. We want to be that kid that is asked to be on the team. We don't stand up. We don't tell a story cause no one's really interested cause everyone else has got their own.
And as a kid, we haven't got a story yet, so it's not our realm. And that's how most of us generally grow into adults. We shrink back. And we feel that our story's not worthy, so we've never practiced it really interesting, really interesting, the next reason. And this is a biological reason and actually a very natural reason.
We're totally desensitized by our own story. Did you realize ?
Donna: Because I guess we've lived it and it doesn't seem interesting to us
Nicole: that doesn't seem interesting. So the amount of people that are on stage telling your story and people like, oh, that is completely fascinating. Just what happened. And we are naturally desensitized and we need to actually move away from that.
We need to actually think about ourselves as a product or service and tell the story from that space. And the final reason we never tell our story is we don't craft it in a way that our audience has created. So we don't craft it to the audience craving. So we're not sharing our headlines and our customer facing benefits.
And this is what you led with. It was beautiful. What you said. I have so much fun. I'm so lucky in business. I transform. You're leading with your headlines, the customer facing benefits, your future focused, your other focus, your compelling, and your aspirational, other people, other people, when we're crafting our story, you know, you could be in a job interview or you could be being interviewed by someone and someone says, Tell me a little bit more about you, so it could be on a date.
Tell me about yourself, where the hell do you start?
Donna: Yeah, the thing, I think what, as I'm listening to I'm jotting down different things that are popping up. Because I think sometimes when I, like, I work with a lot of women who have a variety, like they all come to me with the same sorts of challenges, which is they're time poor.
They want to learn more about running their business really successfully rather than just kind of being on that hamster wheel and being busy all the time, but not actually moving to what they need structure and they need a plan and they need a focus, but they're all from very, very diverse businesses.
So some are service-based businesses. A lot coming through at the moment are product-based businesses, which has been a hobby or something that they're very good at. They've got the skills to do it, the technical skills to do it. And then they're moving into the business side of it. But I think that there's this sticking point, which is what's coming up for me is they go back it's my product is.
Earrings or it's something that like handmade it. So, you know, sometimes there's quite a lot of handmade products. There are some services getting behind that as you're being the brand, but your personal brand behind that, I do encourage them to like do videos behind the scenes and talk to people about who the person is behind the product.
But can you go into that a little bit more detail, who I might be stuck in that. I sell a product. How could I have a personal product?
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And it comes down to a really simple formula, this formula is really that evidence. So belief, and then that is the confidence to come out behind your brand.
Because again, people aren't just buying earrings. People are backing the person, people who, the story behind the earrings. And I don't have to go into that. We all know that. However, what I see all the time, and this happens in big businesses as well. All the time I see the cart is before the horse. I work in brand led business growth.
And I see that the business grows or the business goes before the brand. Then my work is to put the brand before the business. So it's a brand led business approach because the brand will lead the business growth. It can't be the other way around because there will be a plateau and a stagnant, growth in the business.
If this story is not evolve ever evolving, it's really hard to ever evolve a business, but it's not hard to ever evolve a story. We're rebranding an incredible Australian fashion brand for women at the moment it's been in play for about 15 years, everyone would know it and we're hard rebrand. And we're bringing the story of the founders out because they've changed and we're actually taking every, all of their customers and their very sticky community on that journey.
And they're going to see that journey in themselves, and we're going from a inspirational brand to an aspirational brand. And we're putting we're infusing purpose. And the purpose is infused around economic empowerment of women. And suddenly it's layered. And the founders called last night going, we are so energized by this.
We can now see what our brand can be, and it can actually be what we wanted it to be all along. And that is what it is. So when we go back to people, hiding behind their brands and hang on, I'm not a brand. So your why has to come out because that's what people are buying. Yes, they're buying the earrings, but that ever evolving story and you behind the story is the signature brand of the business.
The product brand is the professional brand. They are the earrings, but there's benefits and features of those earrings. But hang on, there's a benefit and a feature, possibly a social impact of those earrings. They could be painted by indigenous artists. They could be. There's a story in that brand. There is a reason that you've got to that, that everyone is interested in and actually that will lead the business growth much better than here by some hearings here by scenarios or here by some hearings.
Ooh, look at this stuff, but some earrings. Oh, it's earrings for sale. Ah, ah, yes. That's just a broadcast of sales messaging, but when someone shows up and goes, I'm going to be exploring the journey of the two women that are painting indigenous art for my new card, that the hearings go on. Join me in that.
It's really important. We tell those stories. So it's interesting. It's finding those different angles to tell your story, to influence an outcome.
Donna: Yeah, I love that. And we do have a module within the Ready To Rise program that is about branding. And one of the things we spoke about yeah is about that, you actually need to become an extension of your customer's identity in the way that you brand your story and you put your, put it out there that they need to identify.
With you and your products and go, oh, that's me or that's who I aspire to be you. And that thing, whatever that pair of earrings is going to help me to show up as that person that I want to aspire to be. And so when that clicks into place for the ladies that I work with, and they start doing that within their business, you can just see this evolution that happens. And then from there, their business, as you say, naturally grows, and it doesn't, it doesn't feel salesy. It doesn't feel icky. It feels beautiful.
Nicole: And I'm going to give you a wonderful analogy that once, you know, you'll never know, and I love your module on branding that actually brings that out and I call it the kilt.
So it's a kilt mode. And what I mean by kilt, if everyone can, everyone knows what's under a kilt and has traditionally in Scotland, the kilt, has your own identity on it. Right? So I always played with identity, but killed for me is no identify with like, So no identify like and trust. So people need to know you, then they'll identify themselves with you and then they'll like you, and then they'll trust you.
Kilt. So where your own kilt it's got your own cloth, it tells a story and then they can identify like, and trust. They cannot know, identify like, and trust your earrings as much as you want them to. They will never know, identify with lack and trust they could identify with, but that know like, and trust is absolutely crucial when it comes to your brand.
So remember to wear your kilt proud, no matter what you think is underneath it, no one can see it where that kilt it's your signature kilt and it's no identify like and trust.
Donna: I love that. So when we're embracing that sense of standing proud as your unique self and taking, being that brand that we talked about, it takes a lot of confidence.
I think like, I know for me takes a lot of confidence, but that can be really challenging, especially when coming from the Aussie culture of that tall poppy syndrome. And you touched on this a little while ago, more talking before, so I want to circle back to it. Because from a young age, we're conditioned to do the opposite to play small, as you said, and to not self promote and to not give that impression that you're eat and a bit.
And when you and I had a chat last week. Yeah. It helped me to move through that. When you walked me through that process of unlocking your unique contribution that you have to the world. And when you explored my past experience and you pulled that golden thread, which linked it all together, I instantly felt like a hundred percent comfortable in showing
Nicole: I was that excited. I was so juiced up, like for hours afterwards, when I work with all of my clients. But doesn't it change your perspective of your own competence?
Donna: Yeah, it really, really does. And that toll poppy syndrome, it just like, felt like I'd shared that, like it was gone.
Nicole: And you can, and you don't go back. That's the thing, Donna, you won't go back once you've got these and we'll share it with everyone. But once you've got these things that I'll share with everyone in these pieces. It actually propels you forward and you don't go back and you actually shed that uncomfortable feeling. It's not comfortable talking because you haven't practiced it, but you don't feel like you're in the wrong space.
You just feel like you need to, I want to do this more. It is actually exciting. Can you imagine the excited about telling the world about so.
Donna: So good. So can you share for our listeners how you move through that imposter or tall poppy syndrome to arrive at a place where you can really stand strong in your mastery and not shy away from it because you have this amazing tool, this signature value map that you shared with me that really, really helped.
And I know that you're keen to share it with people listening, which is awesome. I'll make sure it goes in the show. Absolutely. Can we dig into that a little bit more so that people can get the full benefit from that?
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And I work with global brands, so a lot of my clients at the moment in the U S and in Europe, and I was only talking to a group of them yesterday, actually they're out of Florida and I was explaining the tall poppy syndrome that is uniquely Australian, by the way, Americans don't have any trouble talking about themselves and they don't have any idea.
First of all they thought I was saying a tall puppy. So they were trying to wonder what a tall poppy syndrome was and why we all thought we were tall puppies until they realized that it was a tall poppy syndrome actually came out of the depths of the depression, where there was not enough.
So lacking fear, braids tall poppy syndrome. And as we come through lack and fear was then brought in intrinsically together of people standing up and actually coming into their own brand. Funny enough when they came into their own freedom of doing and saying what they needed and wanted. So when someone was telling about themselves or bragging, or they were taking too much, they actually wasn't enough in Australia.
There wasn't enough jobs. There wasn't enough money. So that fear and lack mentality. And there wasn't a lot of people in Australia compared to distant cousins. And so it was out of necessity, but we've moved far beyond this lack of fear in the country, but we haven't moved beyond the tall puppy. So tall puppy basically means if you stand out, someone will cut you down and they will try because it's coming from their own lack and fear.
I have great compassion. Great compassion and genuine compassion for someone who shows me their, their fear and their lack. And I come in and swoop them up and let them know there is enough and I hear them and see them.
Donna: And that's the thing like I've done a lot of work around the Brenae Brown stuff. I was really lucky to go on a workshop with a Bernie Brown facilitator.
And exploring that whole, like being in the arena and what it feels like when people are throwing the tomatoes that you from the bleachers and stuff like that. And it's like, and it's the people that are sitting in those rows, in the cheap seats that are throwing all that crap at you. They're the ones themselves that coming from a place of fear, not enough.
And if you would revisit places with them, it's like, you can. Criticized cut me down all you want, but I'll swap you. You come and stand in the arena and do this,
Nicole: I'd never want to swap because I've moved out of that. And having compassion for this criticism is never, ever, ever about you or very rarely about you.
It's about them. So tall puppy will keep you small. But then when we talk about imposter syndrome and 70% of people actually have imposter syndrome or feel the effects of the imposter, do you know who was absolutely mannequin and cripple actually manic made manic and crippled by imposter syndrome was Eisntein., and so in his latter years, he drove himself in Spain with it.
He would stay away and his best work was in the last 15 years of his life. However, imposter syndrome completely crippled him actually putting it out in the world. And so we're not, no one's immune to it. And when you talk about imposter syndrome, it is actually a psychological cycle. So it's an internalized fear.
With an internalized view and we don't externalize it, it will go around. So it's actually a psychological loop driven by internalized fear. That's all it is. And that loop goes through. I think something, I feel something I behave a certain way and then I get the response. So I think, feel, behave, respond, think, feel.
So it's a psychological loop to break that psychological loop. We have to think differently and we have to behave differently. And so my question to you and everyone out there think about this really carefully because this actually it's my catalyst for removing that cycling people. Donna, would you ever be on truth or not tell the truth when it comes to your business.
Donna: No.
Nicole: Oh really?
Donna: No, I always, well that's one of my core values is honesty and being authentic. Yeah .
Nicole: Okay. So most people would say to me, oh God, no, I would never make a claim or do anything. And then my next thing is I talk about what do you believe holding crucial information back is actually a form of being dishonest.
Donna: Hold increasingly information back.
Nicole: Yeah. So if you were holding crucial information back, if it's a crime scene or if it was someone, so if you were holding something back. The, why do we do it about our talents and our skills? Why do we do it about our aspirations and our ability to add value to other people's lives?
So when I talk to people, especially women, I'm going to cut to the chase is we shrink back and we hold the vital information that the other person is not able to make an informed decision about. And that is a disservice it's actually dishonest. And so if it's the truth, If we have that impact on others, if we have that superpower, that talent, that skill, why don't we stand in that?
Because the spotlight is never, ever, ever as bright on us as we think it is when we're telling our truth and standing there going, I'm really great at this. Let me help you. And I'm great at this, and I'm great at this. I comfortably do that every day. I'm the first person to tell you what I'm awesome at, but only because I'm awesome at it.
I'll also tell you what I'm really. And I'm shit at and yeah, I on that, but no one is in the dark and everyone can make an informed decision, whether I can add value to them. And that's, my responsibility is not to be dishonest. My responsibility is to help people make informed decisions. So I'm not lying.
And I'm not boasting, I'm not coming from a place of, I hope people believe that I am. I'm coming from a place that says I don't really mind what you believe. I'll just let you know what I am in my belief and my, and my experience. You can have your own experience, but in my experience, I'm great at brand.
I energize people back into their businesses and brands. All of those proof points. And this is really important is next time you hear yourself thinking back, ask yourself is a spotlight really that big. Am I boasting? Am I lying? Or am I beating my own chest? Or am I. Very humbly telling my truth so that someone can make an informed decision.
Whether to work with me, invest me, invest in me, be my friend.
Donna: I think that once that lands for people and if you need to just skip back and they really listen to that section, everybody, because once that lands. There is so much power in that, in breaking through that block that stops people in really stepping forward and really shining with what they have to offer.
And like you said, people can take it or leave it. If you don't tell people about it, then you're the world's best kept secret. And then, like you said, it is doing a disservice to the world.
Nicole: So the thing is in psychological terms as well. No one, no one else on this. Can ever take you at a higher value than you take yourself.
Everyone will meet you at the value that you give yourself. So if you're undervaluing yourself, if you're shrinking back, people can only meet you there. They can't ever think more highly of you. They can, but they struggle and they can't actually tell your narrative with the confidence that they need to.
So they can't rising your price or refer you on to another client. You need to make sure that the value of you is honest. It's the truth and you get out of your own way. So your impact can shine because no one really cares. Let's be honest. No one cares. When I talk about myself, I've gotten to know that no one takes on boasting.
Um, my personal brand is actually warmly wise, so I embody that in everywhere I show up because we'll always be warmly wise. I can give wisdom, but it, beautiful warm way that no one thinks I'm alive. Right? Hopefully some people might, but that's okay. Mostly I don't show up to go. Oh, and another thing you've got to do this and this.
Warmly wise, it's in this wonderful, trusted friend over the back fence time.
Donna: Absolutely. I can totally, that is you absolutely know that that is the way that you come across and I have just taken so much of your warmly wise information today. That's going to not only help me so much in my business, but I know really help other women in their business too.
So thank you so much. It's been thought provoking. Yes, activating and has really unlocked some exciting ideas in my mind that I'm sure, you know, your words would have done the same for other people listening too. So thank you so much for your lovely, warm wisdom. It's been. .
Nicole: , .And, as you said, everyone gets a whale out of valley interview.
So everyone gets the signature value map, which you and I have had the absolute privilege of going through one-on-one, which is. Yeah, I blew me away and I, I know it's rude, totally shifted you, but it just follows the compass. And again, a rule of four, what are those talents and skills that you have that you want to move forward with?
What's the passions that you have that really light you up. And then we dig into what is your identity and reputation. And do you want to shift that or are you okay with that? And how are you articulating that? How are people perceiving you? And the most important question everyone needs to ask themselves right now, today is what does the world need from you most.
What does the world need from you most right now, all of those coming together and your signature value math, and go on to articulate your value, like of queen.
Donna: Like a queen girl. So definitely I will link to the show notes where you can go and download the exact signature values map that Nicole was just exploring and explaining.
So you can go and get that I've done it. And I got a lot out of it. It's really like, I sat down with a couple of Sunday mornings ago and I sat down and mapped it out. I let it ferment. I let it kind of settled for a while. And then I went back to it a few days later and I kept doing that until I became really clear with it.
And. You know, I had a pretty good idea before, but it really just helped to just get that extra level of clarity and confidence. And so if personal brand is something that you really want to dive into more, and you're listening to this thinking, yes, I want to do this, but how that is your first place to start?
Nicole: Oh, and I love that let's all channel out in a tiramisu and soaking it. Like you do have to soak in it. You do have to get used to it. It sounds and feels really uncomfortable and weird, but once like little tiramisu as soon as we so-called all that goodness up, we're ready to go.
Donna: Especially if it's like an espresso martini, you know, like it's got that extra element of
Nicole: Let's all. Let's
Donna: oh, well, thank you so much. Lovely. And it's been a giggle too. So
Nicole: You just energize me for the rest of the night. So thank you so much again, Donna. And I can't wait to keep chatting. This is the start of a much longer conversation.
Donna: Absolutely. Absolutely.
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