Donna: I have some exciting news. I'm running a series of supercharged workshops, some in person and some online, designed to help you focus on the things that will fast track you towards your vision of success in 2023 and get you working on the things that will have the biggest impact on creating the business and the lifestyle you desire.
And there's something really special and dynamic about being in the room in person together, working on your business, so let me tell you what the workshop will cover: a comprehensive business and lifestyle health check, you'll review the core pillars of your business and the areas of life that interplay to form your ideal work life blend.
With my help we're going to assess the top three wins for 2022 and identify the top three areas of improvement for 2023. We're going to reflect on the year that was to identify experiences that maybe caused you stress and challenges, and find the lessons in those experiences and let them go. We're also going to drill down on what needs to be done in 2023, to help you future proof yourself and your business to be happier, healthier and in harmony with your inner knowing passion purpose.
And through this process, you'll draw focus on the things that will help you to grow your business in the direction of your vision and you'll land the importance of setting new boundaries for 2023 and finally, you're going to finish with setting your intention for 2023 with crystal clear goals and a one page plan.
So, if you'd like to check out the locations of where I'll be holding the in person workshops, head to donnahann.com/events and if you can't make it in person, then I'm holding a virtual online workshop too, which can be accessed from anywhere, so come join me! donnahann.com/events There you'll find the information about all the upcoming events.
My guest on the podcast today is Jane Grech, an empowering leader in her industry. Jane's businesses thrive from the power of positive culture by design. Working with her vision, her team is an united and determined force by embracing and enjoying challenges and celebrating success through having fun.
Her team are not only personally and professionally fulfilled, but they are also her business's greatest strength. Her teams have recently won the 2021 award for best team culture in the Australian national what's on for kids awards. Jane is a regular speaker and thought leader on the topics of dance, education, entrepreneurship, culture and leadership.
Today, we are digging into the topic of leadership, both team leadership and self leadership, so even if you don't have a team, I'd recommend listening because there is so much that you will be able to apply to your business and to yourself.
So, I'm really pleased to have the fabulous Jane Grech as my host on the podcast today. Welcome Jane.
Jane: Hello. Thank you for having me.
Donna: I'm really excited to speak to you about all things leadership. It's just what I think about when I think about Jane Grech, but I also would love for you to introduce yourself. I have given you a bit of a formal buyer, but it's always more fun to hear it from the person themselves.
So, as a fellow mom in business, would you tell me a little bit more about you and your business journey?
Jane: Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to and I mean, my business journey's been going for 16 years. I've had a dance studio for 16, almost 17 years and my oldest child is 16, almost 17, not recommended potentially to go to things like that at the same time but life kind of sometimes unfolds in ways we wouldn't plan.
And part of me as a planner and part of me just, just like, all right, this is the opportunity that was provided at that time and both of those things I wanted, so desperately Donna, I wanted to be a mom, so desperately. I wanted to be a dance studio owner, so desperately as well.
So yep. Just kept saying yes to things. Yeah, so I've got my dance studio. I've also written a program about leadership for other dance studios to use, and that's my dance step program and I've had that since 2017, which is pretty, you know, a lot longer than most people realize, but because, oh, it felt really scary kind of when I'd been working in my own business and then going, I know this works for me, it's a student leadership program.
No, it works for me, but it was kind of felt very vulnerable at the time to, to put that out to others and then I do work, like you said, leadership is, is the thing that really lights me up and so whenever I can work in and around leadership, then I will get that grasp that opportunity, so I do work with dance studio owners, both on a one on one, uh, sense, and we do some, some coaching and then I have a mentor program as well.
So, and that really is around. Not, not particularly around having a dance studio, although my one on one clients, we tend to cover all bases but really about leadership and management, so if you're wanting to really grow quickly and get all the marketing hacks and, and how to tweak your Instagram reel I'm so not the girl, right?
Um, my niche is if you get the people right, and you get the management right of, of the paper, get the people on the paper, right. Leadership being the people management, being the paper then you set yourself up really well. Yeah, so that's kind of where I'm at at the moment.
Donna: Yeah and that's part of the reason why I wanted you to be on the podcast is because you are so niche in that area of leadership.
And I've certainly learned a lot from you in the time that I've known you as well but I know that not everyone listening will have a team necessarily, a lot of solo entrepreneurs tune into the podcast, but the other side of leadership is self leadership. I think a lot of people think about leadership as being the leader of a team, but there's such an important part of being a business owner is self leadership.
Because you've really gotta be in, you know, it's that integrity and showing up when no one's watching and leading yourself in the way that you want other people to, I guess also follow in that same respect.
Jane: You know, self leadership always proceeds leading others, always, always and I think early on in my leadership journey, and this is now going back 20 years, I was promoted into a leadership position in a corporate entity.
And I really did think leadership was about others. That was to a point, yes, of course it is, but about exciting and lighting the fire in others and, and I love that. That's a really big part of what kind of gets me going in the morning is like yep. Seeing potential in others, helping others rise, but the hardest person you'll ever lead is the one that looks at you in the mirror each morning.
And so you do have to start there and it kind of can border into self care and self-compassion, it is a really, I have a very holistic view on leadership just as I do teaching as well, so we need to look at the whole self, the whole yes.
Donna: I agree.
Jane: Person when we are leading others, we need to look at them as a human, but we also need to give yourself that same grace.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: So, yeah.
Donna: So, then when I was going to, first of all, dig into team but since we're already kind of in the space of self leadership already and you mentioned self-care because I think that as solo entrepreneurs or when we are leading a team at times, it can feel pretty lonely can't as a business owner and I know that other people have expressed this to me.
It's certainly been my journey as well. There can be some really great moments to celebrate and then it can feel like sometimes there's no one to celebrate with that really gets it, you know, and that can be really challenging and then there's other times where the responsibility can feel so heavy.
Yeah and to continue to show up in the arena each and every day as the face of the business in doing what you're doing, not lose yourself in the process of that too because I think that's another trap that sometimes happens. What inner tools or what mindset, self care habits, those kinds of things. Have you found something that has really helped you in your journey?
Jane: I think the thing is like to have a whole toolbox, to have a whole toolbox of things, because I've now been a lead in the leadership space for 20 years and so, what served me then is not serving me now, my responsibilities have changed as a beginning leader. I could put everything into my work, absolutely everything because I didn't have a romantic relationship to have to kindly put time into, or want to put time into, made it sound like a chore.
I wasn't a parent. I didn't even have my own business. You know, I was working for somebody else and so, I did a lot of reading at the time and actually self-care was pretty low I had, I was young. I had lots of energy, but then as my journey, and as I've got older, I've gone, oh, I need, I need to do a little bit more for me.
It's really about having time to reflect, that's and I know sometimes you can know the things and still ignore them, so I know I need to not have a, a diary that's chocolate block full, but sometimes that's just how it is and, and I start to see or feel the red flags showing up and even though I know what to do to sort myself out, I, I don't allow it.
And that's what I'm talking about like self care and self compassion, I think we need to blur those two together because selfcare, I don't know, to me, it still sounds like bubble baths and Facebook.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: And we all know it's not, it's not, but that's where it started. It's like one of those Instagram reels, you know, where, where it started and how it's going type thing.
And that's where I think self-compassion is really, it is a kind word, um, in that give yourself some grace, how are you speaking to yourself? And so that's another one of my inner tools is to go, how are you speaking to yourself here? Are you speaking to yourself like you would one of your team members? When you are feeling really tired and you're like, oh, but no, I've gotta keep doing this.
And I've got this and that and the other. No, take the dog for a walk, right? Take the dog for a walk. You're going to feel better for it but the problem is we can spiral down and so then, like just getting out and taking the dog for a walk just feels like one more thing to do.
Donna: Yeah. Yeah.
Jane: Yeah. But for me, I mean, I'm a bit of an ambivert.
I kind of sit on the fence there. I can be extroverted, you know, I'm a teacher by trade. It's what we do. It's, it's a performance, but really, if we were to do a personality test, I do come up as an introvert, so it is really important for me to find those times of solitude and whether that's just reading a book or going for a walk, getting out in nature, always feel better for that.
It's just finding your thing and then also realizing yep. It might change over time, yeah.
Donna: I think as you, I've heard you speak so many times and I think that it actually was a seed that was planted in my mind by you, is that the power of the pause in taking that moment.
And when I first met you, life was quite different to what it is now for me in my business journey and things felt, everything felt urgent.
Jane: Yes.
Donna: Everything felt quite heavy and to wrap my head around the idea of actually stopping and pausing and stepping away from my business was like, well, I can't because if I do that now everything's going to unravel and that was another, uh, I guess moment of realization for me that I need to reshape my business in the way that it was at that point in time but that power of the pause.
And I remember you saying to me, but it doesn't have to be every day. It can just be once a month for now and then as you reshape your business and, you know, get the systems and processes in place and get more team members on to help you.
You can then start to go, well, I'm going to do this every week and then it can become like a 10 minute daily habit that you put into your day. Just a pause to write some things in a journal to take a cup of tea.
Jane: Yeah and it doesn't even need to be a thing like an event. It really is more a mindset, to be honest, you know, I am taking you back to when you said, oh, I can't stop because everything will unravel, but then we go but if I don't stop, I'm going to unravel.
Donna: Exactly.
Jane: You know? And so there are little mini pauses that you can put throughout your day for me when I change location, that to me is a little mini pore, so quite often I will work in my home office and then I will go and get my children from school and then I will later and bring them home, yada, yada, yada.
Then I will go into the studio, so each of those changes of location, I've got a choice I can work up till the minute, you know, I've gotta go and get the kids at three o'clock, whatever it is and it takes seven minutes, so 2:53 I fly out the door or I can take 10 minutes close down my computer, take a moment, try and just put a little bit of separation in.
And then the same when I'm finished cooking dinner, I go in to teach my seniors classical ballet. I can take a moment, even if it means just sitting in the car park at work for five minutes, just taking a moment, right? What, and being able to be intentional about where I've been and where I'm going to go.
And so , if you can infiltrate your day with daily like little mini moments, as well as the cups of tea or the walks or the, the monthly reset, you know, where you might buy yourself, coffee and cake or the long weekend away. Those are all great as well but I think that mindset about just taking the moment and I also think we need to touch on the fact that as leaders, often whether we've got a big team or whether it's just me, myself and I, and we're kind of trying to get our, our small business really going is that we tend to be people that are very task orientated.
Donna: Mm-hmm.
Jane: Right? We get stuff done.
Donna: We just sure do.
Jane: We got, yeah and so this idea of taking a moment.
Actually disrupts what we believe to be true, which is that productivity is, is gold and we, you know, again, we know, we know we're like, oh, we're not robots. We know we're not robots, but we do start to feel better if we've got this big list and we tick it all off and we're like, look how productive I've been.
So, if you need to put pause on your list, do it. That's okay and I wish it was as easy as that because I mean, I can still go for a walk in the middle of the day, knowing it's the best thing for me ,knowing it's the best thing for my team, my business, and still feel a bit like, oh, mm-hmm , you know, so yeah, you're just going to have to, we just have to work through it, breathe through it.
Donna: Yeah and I think though, the more that you do it, the less you feel bad, you know. It just feels like, well, it's part of my day, it's part of what I do in setting myself up for success, so yeah.
Jane: And I deserve.
Donna: Exactly.
Jane: I deserve to look after myself and I, if you do have to reframe it for whatever reason, then do it for others because even though we've rift on self leadership, people are watching and you set the standard we know this as leaders, we know we set the standard, but if I am working 24/7, then without even saying it. That's what I'm really suggesting to my, my team. That's what I want us to do here.
Now. I'm not, I've never gone. Oh yeah. They should all work as hard as me. I'm the business owner. I get it but it's these messaging. It's not what we say. You know, it's what people see and so we do need to, and you know, mothers as well.
Donna: Yeah. I was about to say it. Goes down to our children. They watch monkeys, see monkeys do.
Jane: A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
And that's where I felt really blessed because the three kind of corners of the work that I do, you know, being a mother, being a leader and being a teacher, they were all very, I think, very similar roles, but in all of those people are watching and so, I need to lead myself so as an act of leadership to others.
Donna: Yeah.
So, if let's switch into team leadership for a moment, when venturing into the waters of employing a team for the first time, what would you say to a person who's, you know, new to doing this, the most important things that you can do to prepare your business and to prepare yourself as the leader. I know that's a pretty big question, but...
Jane: Yeah, it is.
But I think the most important thing is not to just find people that are the same as you, which is kind of like what we tend to do, because it feels really comfortable.
Donna: Mmm.
Jane: But the first thing you need to do before expanding, you know, into leadership of a team is we'll know what your strengths are, but also know what your weaknesses are.
And if you can hire, if you're in a position where you can hire somebody that will actually have their strengths are your weaknesses and fantastic. We need people to be able to do the things that we can't do. It'll actually in the end, be easier for you to manage and work together because there won't kind of be this clash of egos.
And this is where sometimes people struggle, particularly if they've been doing things themselves for a long time, it feels good, right?. It feels good to be that person. If you've, if you're in a business and it's all, it's, it's all centered around you. You're almost like this little mini celebrity and, um, I know, I know a lot of people have expressed this to me.
It's like, oh, but what if they like such and such better? Right? So we're, we're now working with our ego, so you just need to know that you've got a little bit of magic within you that nobody else can replicate and this your next person and the next person and whoever also has that within them, we are all uniquely and wonderfully made.
So, let's tap into that but don't feel so focused on the tasks that this person's going to be doing, really focus on the kind of person that they are. Again, that goes back to that holistic view, but I can teach you tasks.
Donna: Yes.
Jane: You know, I can teach you how to respond to my dance step email. It's not hard.
I can teach you how to reconcile zero, whatever the task is. Let's go a little bit further than that when you're recruiting in that first stage and get to know that person's strengths, get them to do a personality test, get them to do a strength finding test. You know, lots of different kinds of things like that, where you, you are interested in, well, how's this person going to work with me and how am I going to work with them?
Um, and I think. It also needs to be said that again, this is going to loop back to, to looking in the mirror. How are you going to feel when this person's really competent? And I know that sounds hilarious because you'll be like, oh, well, it'll be fabulous. It'll be fabulous. We'll be getting it, but it doesn't always work like that.
It might challenge your ego depending on how long, you know, you've been operating by yourself for, so just, just take a moment to, to realize that there's going to be a little moment you know, little, little. I guess experiences that you might go, oh, I wasn't quite ready for that.
Donna: Yeah, that self-awareness.
Jane: Yeah.
Donna: And reflection on that.
Jane: And reflection on it. That's right and it, it's not, it doesn't mean you're bad or you are wrong. It probably just means you are human.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: And then on the other side of the coin, you might just be like, this is the greatest thing ever. Why did I wait so long? I'm an idiot. We're all different.
We're all going to respond to that change in dynamic differently. Your first high is probably your hardest.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: Because it's a bit scary. Isn't it? You're like, yeah.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: How, you know, what, if this doesn't work well, what if it doesn't work now?
Donna: You know and that's it. It's like, well, that's a lesson now that you can take forward.
Jane: Yeah.
Donna: The other thing I wanted to touch on as well, is that I know when I, so my first two businesses were just me solo and then with the dance studio, it got to the point where I needed to have teachers and, you know, admin support and that kind of stuff and I wanted to be, this is an ego thing too. I think a little bit, I wanted to be the leader who was super supportive and really approachable and, you know, a hundred percent in their corner.
And I wanted that close knit team, which I think there's a lot of value to that and absolutely, you know, the culture within your team is so important, but over time, what happened was the boundaries of being a boss, a word that I don't really like to use, but being the leader of the team and being that, you know, we're in a regional community where, you know, there's just, everybody knows everybody.
Um, but the lines became blurred for a little while where it was really difficult to manage situations that perhaps required verbal warnings, or just to, you know, a little reminder that this is kind of not the way that we behave and we need to remember that sort of stuff. Um, once I changed my approach and I created some intentional distance with my team, they're a hundred percent aware of that.
And we navigated through that with some adjustments and whatnot, and it was definitely better for me and the business in the long run, but I'm interested to know what your approach is to that and how you can make it work for you and your business and your team, in holding them accountable to the values and behaviors of your business but also, you know, that human, that humanness that we need to have and we've got a close knit team it's really sometimes tricky.
Jane: It's so tricky and I tell you why it's tricky in small business particularly because we do need to have friends at work. All of us need to have friends at work that come up, you know, over and over again in studies about good workplaces that everyone has at least one friend at work.
Um, so yeah, we'll go with your word boss. Um, when you are the boss, are you allowed to have friends at work? Well, yes, you are but what you are saying is it starts to get, it starts to get blurry, you know, because it's all fun in games while everything's great until somebody does something that really does need to be addressed.
And now we're wondering, well, what if they don't like me anymore? What if they all, you know, talk about me behind my back now it's them versus me. Um, you know, so often people will feel like that and they won't address the behaviors and then business will suffer but at the end of the day, you are in that relationship because you are paying them to do a job.
Donna: Exactly, yeah.
Jane: Um, but it, it is really hard and this is where it's different in a corporate setting, because quite often, um, you will have your team and you will be friendly with them and you might even, you know, go out for drinks on a Friday night or whatever it is, but you will also have another team of other leaders.
And they are possibly more likely to be your friends, your, um, you know, so I think it, it is important just to, not to kind of put people in boxes, but just to realize where the relationships start and end and I was like, you, I wanted to be, you know, so approachable and nothing is too much trouble and sure.
And, and I did things that really. I think probably stemmed from a need to be like the world's best boss, you know, light at the end of the day, from the need to be light, look how fabulous this is and again, it was all great while things were going well, but the minute you sit opposite somebody and, and have to give them some feedback that less than great, you know.
It starts to get real, doesn't it?
Donna: Yeah, it sure does and I think being an empath as well, like you sort of, I found myself in a bit of a rescue.
Jane: Of course.
Donna: And then you're enabling and then it's like, yeah and it can become really messy at that point as well.
Jane: It's important. I mean, there's so much there.
We could, we could really go to town on this, but I think it's just important to recognize where the work relationship starts and ends and also sometimes say that out loud, so it might be, you know, I know we are friendly, but I'm sitting here in front of you today as the business owner, so, and I, you know, I can do that with students as well if perhaps their behaviors or something's not quite right.
You know, I know that we've got this relationship, but because I care for you, I can't let this keep going, so just kind of really making it very clear. Why are you having the conversations that you have, but at the end of the day, you're not a family. I hear small business, particularly in dance studios.
We're a family. We're not, we're not, we're actually here because I'll tell you why we're not, because the kind of behaviors that I will put up with in my family are a lot worse than what I should be putting up with at work and that's because I love my family. I will do anything for them. I'm not suggesting, um, toxic behaviors, you know, we won't even go there, but you know, my children can be their best and worst selves with me.
Knowing that I will still love them and I will tolerate that because they're my children and I know they're tired but that's very different from a student or a staff member. They're not my family because at the end of the day, when they can't get what they need from me anymore, they're going to go.
And if I start thinking about them, like my family or like my best friends, when they go, I'm going to be left with a, a broken heart and, and thinking, oh, but I thought we were one big happy family and I mean, obviously families have disruptions as well. You know, it's not, it's not as simple as, as the analogy could, would like it to be.
But I think it is very, very important to not be distanced, but to be balanced in, in what you're doing and also, you know, you, you tapped into that rescue at tendency. We need to question where that's coming from as well. Quite often that, uh, for females, that rescuer is from the need to be liked. If I rescue them, they will really value and appreciate me, but it is a dysfunction that comes down to, and I think you, and I've chatted about this in, even in a group sense, the drama triangle.
Donna: Yes.
Jane: Um, yeah, where often our team members will quite happily sit in the, the victim corner because they know that we are going to swoop in, in our rescuer with our rescuer on keep on, so, um, the, the third corner of that triangle is the persecutor, but generally in small businesses we can, um, and we can all, you know, ding around like a ping pong ball.
Between, between those corners but if you keep rescuing somebody who's sitting in that victim corner, you are not a leader at all. You are enabling the behavior.
Donna: Yes.
Jane: You're not. If I'm saying here is leadership, this is about being, um, the person that can help others rise up. If I'm rescuing them, I'm actually not helping them rise up. What am I doing? Probably keeping them small so that I can rise up if I'm being really honest, you know? And then when you put it like that, you're like, oh shit.
Donna: Yeah. I sometimes find like you see the potential in people and for me, it sometimes comes from that way and going, oh, I see the potential and I really wanna help them get from here to there because I can see it in them.
But again, you can't do it for them and it's about leading the horse to water, as they say.
Jane: And that's one of the hardest, like, that's the biggest frustration, isn't it? When you can, you know, somebody's got something within them.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: I think every leader's had, you know, a handful of people like that. I definitely have and for me when they haven't reached their potential, I felt like a failure. Like yeah now, they can do this.
Donna: Yes.
Jane: Wasn't obviously ever about me, but we can believe in them till the cows come home but unless they do, unless they have that belief.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: But that doesn't mean we, we'd stop cheering them on or anything like that, but that is, I think that is a really, I'm glad you mentioned it because I probably one of the most frustrating things about this.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: Um, yeah, what can, you can only do so much.
Donna: That's right and you can. I think that's what it's about is acknowledging how far you can tempt them to step into their potential and support them and guide them and, you know, as, but then at the same time, as you said, there's a line in the sand where from here, you need to carry the bat forwards.
And I, we'll continue to cheer you on from the sidelines, but you can't do it for them, but that's, I've fallen into that trap a few times as a leader in going, I see your potential and I wanna help you and, and yeah, it, it comes across and I definitely was the enabler and the rescuer going, no, no, but I know you can get here.
Come, we can do it, but yeah.
Jane: Um, the odd lessons are full of hard lessons, right? It really is. Sorry just to cut you off because the problem with leadership or the challenge, I like to use the word challenge. The challenge with leadership is just when you think you've got it all sorted out and you're like, oh, you know what?
I think I'm, I'm stepping up as a leader here. I reckon I'm doing pretty well. A whole new human comes along and all the things that, all those lessons that you learned with, you know, person A do not apply to person B. Got, it's like a, just a whole new book, right? And you're like, oh, yeah. I mean, obviously there's some common threads, but sub it is, is quite disheartening.
Because you're like, oh, oh right back at the beginning.
Donna: Yeah, back to the drawing board.
Jane: Yeah, back to the drawing board and that's where taking the time to really kind of keep scratching the surface of each individual that you work with. Um, is, is very valuable, but it is time consuming and, um, when we are busy, remember we've got these people because we wanna get more work done because we like, you know, we've got goals and you're like, oh, here I am.
You know, in all of these meetings with all of these people, um, would it be quicker if I just went back to doing the work myself and sometimes actually the answer is yes, but not always, you know, uh, sometimes it's not, but that I think is where it can get a little bit time consuming, you know, think, oh God, I have all these, these chats.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: Um, but, you know, back, back to your comment about balancing those boundaries, you know, I have sat in conversations where it's just struck me kind of into the next half hour of the conversation and going, oh, actually I'm not your counselor.
Donna: Yes.
Jane: I'm, so I'm not your, I'm not, I'm not a psychologist.
So, I'm going to have to cut you off here because we've now crossed over. I know you've got a life outside work, but I, this is out of my kind of depth generally and also you don't have time. You don't have time apart from the fact that you're not equipped. That's where that role can be really hard in a small business, because you do get to know each other on a really intimate level.
Um, and you, you are interested, but you might need to say things like, listen, um, we've covered all that I needed to in our meeting today. I'm really sorry to hear, you know, that things aren't that great at home and I'd love to listen some more, maybe we could grab our lunch break together sometime this week.
Yeah. So you, in that little comment, you're trying to say right now we're working um, but as a friend, I can, you know, go for, go for lunch with you and we can do it then. Yeah.
Donna: Yeah. Um, and this also loops a few of the things that you mentioned there before loops back to that in small teams. Um, and this is your words, what you walk past will continue or it's something very similar to that that might not be exactly, right?
Jane: Yep. Yeah. Basically that's it.
Donna: Yeah and so within a small team, I think it's even more important to have those conversations, which may feel uncomfortable and may challenge you as a leader in going, oh my goodness, I've really gotta pull this person up on their behavior and how are they going to feel? And then how all of everything that we've covered.
Um, but if you don't ,that little small fire will quickly permeate through the rest of the team and if that behavior is allowed to continue then sure as hell, somebody else will give it a try as well and before you know it, you've got this whole team. The culture within that team is now very toxic.
Um, or it could be hurting your business quite significantly, so hundred percent.
Jane: And hurting you, you know? Because you're, you are, you have taken a risk. If you're a business owner, you have taken a huge risk to set up on your own and you have the right to create that business to be exactly what you want it to be.
And I've been right where you kind of illustrated where I've got to work and gone. I don't actually wanna go in, what the heck? That's my business that I've felt built up, right? I have the right to go in and feel completely relaxed and comfortable at and at ease but at that point, when, you know, in that illustration, the person that was already in there, I knew because their car was in the car park or like, oh, I don't wanna go in there here.
I had not been a courageous leader. I had allowed that to happen. I had let them get away with things because I didn't have the guts to have those conversations and so, that was my bed and I had to lie in it and, um, you know, it got worse until it got better, which and obviously the better is both coming to the agreement where we're like, you, you would be better off elsewhere.
And instantly you're like, yep, that's the right decision. So, you know, being a leader is so, so hard, you have to be brave, so brave and all of those little conversations, you know, like you say, if you, if you just keep walking past them, they're going to get worse but they're not fun. Nobody loves those conversations, particularly.
I've been doing them forever and I'm not like, oh, great, woo. Oh, I get to have that little chat today. You know, I will put them off. I will put them off and, but because I know I will put them off for that day. I'm like by five o'clock, you know? So you might see them at 10 and be like, mm, no, no, that wasn't the right time, right?
You can talk yourself into anything. Uh, and I'm like, by, by the time they leave today, we need to have had this conversation to the point that I've even had a conversation in the car park as someone and I were leaving together, because it's like, oh, come on. Oh, just before you go. You know, when you have such and such last week and I need, you know, so it's like, oh, and then it's done.
Um, and actually just on a really practical level, walking and talking is fantastic to the point that at one point in time, my team would not come for a walk around the block with me because they knew what was coming well, just, oh, you know, it's sunny outside. Could you wanna like, just stretch your legs?
We'll go for a walk around the block and I used to do that because, um, you know, again, in small business often there's lots of ears around and it is hard to get people along.
Donna: A private space, yeah.
Jane: Right? And so then it's just a happy excuse. Oh, I couldn't get them alone. Couldn't get them alone, so I couldn't do it, right? You can, again, talk yourself into anything.
So I would say, oh, you know, just, why don't we go for a walk, but if you wanna, if you wanna play that game and it is a good one, may I recommend, you know, like a breaking it up soon, you wanna go for a walk and then tell them something fantastic that they've done and then next time tell them something fantastic and then just save up that other one, you know, if there's some.
Donna: But I think that can be a really great tip to do with your kids as well.
Jane: Yeah.
Donna: You know, um, and them alone. Get them alone and, and get them walking because I think it's far less confrontational when you're not necessarily opposite one another.
Jane: That's what I found.
Donna: Um, that you're side by side and you can.
Jane: Side by side, yeah.
Donna: Have the conversation…
Jane: And you don't have to make eye contact. We're all a little bit awkward anyway. I'm the first to admit I can be a little bit awkward in one on one. Like, do you stare people in the eye? Like when, or is that a bit intense or do you look over there?
Like, you know, like let's overthink this and, and then they've got their awkwardness and so now you're both like, well, uh, right? Go, go for a walk or even, um, in the car with the kids as well is great. So, you know, let's just, um, jump in the car and go and grab a coffee and drive back or whatever.
Donna: And I think too, sometimes it can be really hard to wrap up those conversations. Oh my gosh and you're like, how do I, how do I stop you it's time and sometimes it's stand up.
Jane: Yeah. It's hard to start them and it's hard to stop them.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: Yeah. You've got to stand up.
Donna: Yeah.
Jane: Try not to, um, you know, I, I've got my own office in my studio and so I'll invite people up and say, you know, I want a cup of tea.
That's generally how it starts and now the reason I've got you here, I like, I like to start in none of this kind of how's the dog, you know? The reason, you know, I need to have a chat with you, but the best way to get out is to stand up and physically walk out. Doesn't always work, you know, there are sometimes where you're like, you need to come like, this is my, you need to go now but yeah, if you've gone for a walk around the block, you can see when, when you coming up.
Donna: Exactly.
Jane: Where to wrap it up.
Donna: Yep. That's right. That was the reason I thought it's a, another good reason to take the walk around the block is because, you know, it's coming to the end and you need to wrap it up and they know what to do, for that.
Jane: Yeah, and all exactly and then open the door and every, you know, okay. Yeah. Good. Yeah.
Donna: So, the last thing I'd love to talk to you about is retention of team members, because we know how hard it is to sometimes attract them, particularly in regional areas and we've had this chat before in attracting the right person to your business can sometimes be tricky to find, um, that they've got the right value.
To start with and then yes, you can teach them the other stuff. Sometimes it's those skills that you want them to have a history of experience with like being a dance, dance teacher.
Jane: Dance teacher, yeah.
Donna: Um, but then in keeping them and retaining them, if they are someone that you do wanna keep and retain, what have you found that works really well with team retention?
Jane: Um, so just before we jump into retention, I think the thing is I, I was really good at this, but what happened is I was a little bit too good at it and so some of my people stayed too long because I was so good at retaining them, showing them the love, making it a great workplace that why would you wanna leave?
But then they also got a little bit stuck in their comfort zones. You know, they were, they were happy as pigs in mud and that got really tricky for me because it's not like they were doing anything particularly wrong, you know, they weren't breaking any codes of conduct. They were values aligned all of the on.
Yeah, but the passion had gone and they were really stuck in the comfort zone. So it's like this little kind of like everything it's little dance. You just need to make sure that if, if people start to looking like they're getting a little too comfortable to, to, um, ask some questions about that. Um, but in terms of retaining people, I think really getting to know them on a, on a, on a level that is.
You know, holistic again, not, I was going to say deep level, but that kind of counteracts what we've said again, it's another dance, like how well do we get to know these people? We get to know these people in a way that we can support them best while at work ,so that we can help them reach their career goals, whatever they may be.
So, we need to know about what their goals are. We need to know why they've chosen to work in your organization and how we can help them and I think just having those regular conversations, like sure. Throwing them some chocolate every now and then flowers for birthdays saying nice things passing on, right?
All of the, the kind of noisy things to help retain people and make them feel great, yes. Do all of that. Do all of that and do it for yourself as well. I'm, I like to just randomly buy myself flowers as employee of the week every now and then, right?
Donna: Because well, cause nobody else is going to exactly.
Jane: I mean, they are in a dance studio. I can't, I shouldn't say that because you know, quite often you'll get some fun little things, but you know, treat, treat yourself. Mm yeah. Do all of that, but make sure you are making time to speak with, with your team, not just in those negative times where things need to change, but to say, where do you see yourself in five years?
And it's okay. Like don't, don't tell me the answer you think I wanna hear, which is, oh, working happily here, because actually I probably don't want you here in five years, working happily here because I don't think that'd be the best for you or the business. You know, so if they say, oh, I'm going to do some study and I wanna go into this field.
Well, okay. Good to know. I'll keep my ear to the ground for opportunities that might support that. Um, you know, training opportunities might come along. I've had conversations with team members who've gone. Oh, I'm really interested in working with children with additional needs. I'm okay. Well, that's really great to know because you know, when a training course comes along about working with a certain group of children, they're the person I send.
And then I get them to come back and share the information with the team because they've got that interest in it. I mean.
Donna: Yes.
Jane: I didn't know that I'd probably just go myself and share the information with the team, but it's much better to invest in them and let's just talk about that word investment.
You are going to spend time. You are going to spend money and people will leave and you'll go, oh, what a waste of time and money. No. Reframe that, get rid of that thought because if you are putting time and money into them and growing them as an employee and as a person, then you're doing your job.
And if you, if you're not, and they're staying then, then what, right? People are always like, oh, but what if they leave? And I'm like, yeah, but what if they stay and you've been, and, and they've not had any improvement, right? Yeah.
Donna: Where, yeah.
Jane: So, it's look, it is. Tricky, tricky, tricky. That's what lights me up about it.
It's so hard. I can't tell you how many books on leadership I've done. I'm a, you know, I've done a leadership and management degree, but I just keep reading and keep meeting new people and keep finding all of these different layers. I am. You know, obviously as I get older each year, I find different layers to myself.
It's just like this never ending thing and that's probably a good kind of place to tie a bow on it. In that it's a little bit like parenting, you know, our children, we might be 80 and our, our children are 55. They're still our children, our workers. Still ongoing and so the work of a leader is, is ongoing and you will just, it will never be done like systems, like systems in your business.
Don't think that like by June, you know, because you're going to continue to evolve. Um, so just keep going up that level, new level, new devils and that's such a, you know, such a reward, isn't it for personal growth. You're like, oh, yeah. Oh, there's more up here.
Donna: Oh, fabulous. Okay, great.
Well, Jane, it's been so insightful and thought for broke for, I can't even speak thought for broken that one.
Um, thank you for sharing so much impactful knowledge with everyone who's listening. I've certainly learned a lot in addition to what I've already learned from you over the years, which I'm super grateful for. Um, how can people find more if they want to grow their leadership skills? If they're wanting to, if they're a dance studio owner and they're looking for support in that way.
Jane: The best place is probably on Instagram, so you can find me @dancestudiosuccess. Um, just send me a message and, and, you know, have a conversation or check out some of the content there. Um, yeah and I'd, I'd love to connect with anybody who wants to talk about leadership or just sometimes it's nice.
I think just even to listen to a conversation like this and, and smile and, and go, oh, yep. Yep. That's me too. Oh yeah, me too and go, oh, I'm not alone. You know exactly. We started about that feeling of loneliness with God. We've all been there and we will, again, we will again see it.
Donna: And that's part of the purpose behind the podcast is to expose, uh, other business owners to inspiring women in business who are doing things, you know, that are maybe in a different industry or at a different place in their journey of business, but we can all learn from one from one another. Um, but it's also that you don't feel so alone and even if it's by having somebody in your ears, that's great, you know.
Jane: So, a hundred percent on your, on your self-compassion walk a hundred percent. Thank you, Donna. It's been so lovely to connect with you again and, you know, uh, I appreciate your kind words about some of the things you've learned from me, but, uh, I have very fond memories of, of our time working, you know, was in a group setting where I was doing some leadership coaching and I do look back on those times with, with great fondness.
I think it was a time of growth and reinvention for a lot.
Donna: absolutely.
Jane: Um, of the members and so, it's so nice to watch everybody continue in that.
Donna: Yeah, thanks Jane. It's been a lovely chat.
Jane: Thanks Donna.
