Donna Hann
Melissa Bush is a practicing lawyer based in the southern suburbs of Sydney. Melissa started her law firm in 2003, when her oldest was just six months old. Her company focuses on the areas of business, property and estates law, and since starting her business 19 years ago, she has raised three gorgeous girls. Also, whilst juggling the demands of running her business and servicing her clients. Her girls are now 1517 and 19. So Melissa is focused on scaling the business and has created business know how a Support Hub for small business owners to learn about the laws of business. And Melissa's core mission is to educate business owners about the laws they need to know and use that knowledge to manage their legal risks. So in today's podcast, we talk about the legal requirements for setting up your business, protecting your IP with trademarks, and what to do if a copycat keeps replicating your office and common issues that arise when business owners haven't been proactive in protecting their business from a legal standpoint.
Donna Hann
Hello, I'm Donna Hann, a business coach, and an online course creator. And this is the She's In Business Podcast. You can think of me as your business bestie, who's a few steps ahead of where you are right now. As a monk fueled with ambition and determination, I've created and sold three businesses. I've learned the lessons made mistakes, and I understand the daily juggle in the hustle. I also know what it's like when relationships fray and burnout taps you on the shoulder. That was my world until I reshaped and transformed the way I ran my six figure business. Today I help women to transform their businesses and go from being the overwhelmed entrepreneur to becoming the thriving entrepreneur feeling energized, empowered and fulfilled within their business lifestyle. I want to inspire your business journey and help you to stop spinning your wheels, because I want you to burn bright instead of burning out. And I'll invite other entrepreneurs to share their real life stories too, because I want you to know that you're not alone. You can be the savvy entrepreneur that you were born to be, and enjoy the freedom to do the things and be present with the people that mean the most to you. So if you're ready to rise to the next level and build a business by design, this is the she's in business podcast for moms who are made for more.
Donna Hann
Hello, welcome to another episode of The She's in Business Podcast. Today. I'm joined by Melissa bush. Welcome, Melissa.
Melissa Bush
Hi, Donna. Thanks very much for having me.
Donna Hann
So I am excited to talk about all things legal when it comes to our business in just a second. But I want to hand the spotlight over to you for a moment. And I'd love for you to introduce yourself.
Melissa Bush
Okay, so my name is Melissa Bush, I'm a lawyer practicing in the southern suburbs of Sydney, formerly of Sydney CBD were in my heyday of being a senior associate working for bigger firms in the city. But then, as soon as I started having family decided that working in the city wasn't a good fit for my family life. So decided to start up my own practice. And that practice is now 19 years old, just as the same age as my regulations. That's you, thank you. Yeah, and over the past 19 years, it's obviously had it's morphed through different different sizes and gone through different stages as any normal business would go through. But at this stage, it's myself with a small team, we focus in the areas of business law, property law, and estates law. So on the business law side of things, I've just started, what I'm calling at the moment a bit of a side project that I hope that hopefully will become one of my main focuses as I grow the team back up, but it's a side project called Business know how that basically, I'm developing as essentially a source for a source of for small business owners to, to learn about the laws of business, learn about the laws that they should know about, they need to know about and what they can do, to basically put systems procedures, documentation, etc, in place or with a view of avoiding legal issues arising down the track and minimizing the time money and expense. That that those legal issues often will involve.
Donna Hann
Yeah, and there's stress too, right. Oh, and the stress so much stress.
Melissa Bush
Yeah, yeah, you see it on. You see it on business owners faces when they coming in for an appointment and the stress all of it, and it's just all encompassing. I mean, you know, as a small business owner, your business often is your life like you you sleep, you know, eat dream and about it the you know, 24/7, basically. Exactly. And that's what yeah, like. So that's what a lot of a lot of people that aren't involved in business that I come across that they just don't understand. Hang on, it's the weekend. Why are you working on your business? It's like, because it's my choice to I enjoy it. But also, you get you find it difficult to switch off. Hmm.
Donna Hann
So this is one of the reasons why I got you on the on the podcast is because exactly what you described with business know how I have listeners who are either startup businesses, or they are in that next growth phase of business. And sometimes we, you know, you don't know what you don't know, in the legals around setting up a business and protecting your brand and your IP, but also making sure that you're not doing the wrong thing without realizing it. So I think maybe it would make sense to start from this the startup sort of phase out there. And so as a minimum, what didn't you business owners need to set up from a legal standpoint,
Melissa Bush
Basically, as soon as you decide that you want to start a business, you really need to decide what your legal structure is going to be. So at its easiest form, a lot of people will be familiar with what with the type of business known as being a sole trader. So that basically means you literally apart from registering your business name, because it is I should mention, it's a legal requirement for if you are trading under a name that is different to your own name, you must register that business name with ASIC. But apart from deciding on your business name, you can start off as a sole trader, which means that basically you are trading in your own capacity, you as the individual trading as your registered business name. So that means that basically any income that is earned by your trading activities, it is your personal income. So if you if this is a bit of a side hustle to start with, as a lot of businesses are, and you still have a day to day, you know, five day a week normal, normal employment, and you're earning an income from that any income that you earn from the business will basically be treated the same as any income you receive from your salaried position. So you play you pay tax on that accordingly. But also to and not only is any income from your business activities, not only does the Tax Office treat that as your own personal income, but also most importantly, any debts of the business or your personal debts as well.
Melissa Bush
So if for example, you were to incur debt with a supplier, that's up for whatever reason, you don't pay that supplier and the supplier has the legal right to recover that amount of money from you, then essentially, that is your personal debt. And if you don't pay the supplier, it would be open to them to essentially take you personally to court and get judgment against you for the amount that's payable, and exercise that judgment and basically force you to pay that amount of money from your own personal assets. So your own personal bank accounts, depending on the amount of the debt, you know, literally all of your personal assets could potentially be at risk. So the reason why a lot of a lot of business owners when they start out, they often won't start out as a sole trader, they'll just jump straight into being a corporation and trading as such, the biggest advantage of trading as a corporation is that it's a separate legal entity. So you'll often see around around the traps, X Y, Zed plumbing Proprietary Limited. So that is a totally separate legal entity from the owners behind that business. So if you were to set up a corporation, you basically would own the shares in the corporation. And you would appoint yourself as the director of the corporation to manage the day to day affairs of the corporation. So in that instance, when you are trading under a corporate structure, if anyone was to try and sue the business, so to speak, to recover a debt, then they would be suing the corporation, not you personally.
Melissa Bush
So if someone was to sue the business and try to get money out of out of the business, it would be limited to say whatever was in the corporation's bank account, you wouldn't be able to, they wouldn't be able to recoup any of that debt from your own personal bank account, for example. Yeah, on its simplest level, I mean, there are certain except exceptions under the Corporations Act, where personal assets may be at risk, but that's You know, yeah, a discussion for another day, it can be quite complicated. I've been in Imagineers form. Yeah, in its purest form a corporation is a separate legal entity. So any income earned is the is the corporations and any debts that are incurred are the corporations as well.
Donna Hann
And so if you're starting out, and you're like, oh, just to start, I'm gonna go with the sole trader option. Yep. Do Is there is it very difficult to switch if you get to the point where you want to?
Melissa Bush
Generally not, and a lot of a lot of it comes down to what's the level of income that you anticipate earning? In the, you know, first couple of years, a lot of accountants will suggest, look, if you're only going to be running a small side hustle or a small, small business operations, you may be best just to keep it simple and operate as a sole trader. But down the track, yes, certainly. It's open to incorporate your business. So personal example, I incorporated my law firms practice arts coming up to 10 years ago now. And that was when I was at a point where I was taking on employing more staff. We were securing bigger commercial premises, it just made sense that the business was at that's that size. Yeah. That it made sense to incorporate. So it just meant that the lease that I entered into for the new business premises, it was in the company's name, not my own personal name. Yeah. Any supply agreements where the company's name? Yeah, so it is easy enough to transfer those legal responsibilities over. It's just a little bit of a process. But it's not uncommon.
Donna Hann
And getting advice from your accountant as well, to make sure it's the right move for you. It would exactly to Yeah. So when you like what would be the biggest mistake that you see, when business owners come to you needing legal help by the common things that often present?
Melissa Bush
Probably the easiest way to describe it is that a lot of business owners will come to me when, when they've they're needing to react to an issue that has come up, they haven't been proactive about putting things in place to prevent that issue coming up. So probably the most significant past sort of client story that I always think about, and it's sort of was the drive to create this business know how portal and offering for clients is, there was a cafe owner that came to me a few years back, they were selling the cafe that had the they don't the cafe for 15 years, but they were selling they listed it with a business broker, they had had it listed for six months, after six months, they finally found a buyer for the business, they negotiated price, discuss settlement terms decided on a date, etc. But it was only then that the business owner or the cafe owner came to me and said, Look, we need to get a contract together we need we know we need a legal contract. So can you please draw it up? I should, it's probably a good opportunity for me to explain.
Melissa Bush
It's really important for business owners to realize that the business itself is different to the legal entity behind the business. So particularly if you're operating under a corporate structure, so your corporation may own various tangible assets. So in the case of this cafe, there's the plant and equipment, the furniture, the the crockery, the cutlery, the the shelving, the coffee machine, the fridge, and so on and so forth. But then there's also the intangible this the the assets, you can't touch and feel. So things like your general goodwill, your employees, your supply agreements, your business name, your, your logo for your business, etc. So there's all of those sorts of assets. And when a corporation is selling a business, generally, you need to specify Well, what does the business consist of? So whenever you are selling a business, one of the most important documents that needs to go into the contract is a list of all of your physical assets. So your inventory. So in this case, for the cafe owner, I had to get her to put together a list of everything that was included. So all of the tables, the chairs, the as I mentioned previously, so she didn't have that. So the buyer of the cafe didn't actually know with 100% certainty what they were buying. That's so easy, because that's what what does your business consist of? And she said, Well, it just, it's everything I said, Okay, so, okay, let's drill down on this. You obviously operate from premises. Where's your lease? Didn't know what okay, you and I know with cafes, there's usually a supply agreement in place for the alarm system for the pest pest control for the coffee machine for the fridges. Because fridges are usually provided by the soft drink manufacturers.
Donna Hann
Yes, yes.
Melissa Bush
Couldn't put a hands on any of that. So basically, I had to give her some guidance as to what she needed. Get together. That all took time. And during that time she was she was saying to me look at the buyer is getting cold feet, they're going to walk away. And yet so yeah, they pretty much the deal almost fell over because it's the time it took her to. And that I guess the most frustrating thing about that situation was that she had actually had the cafe listed with a broker for six months. So plenty of time to get all of that together. Yeah, unfortunately, she didn't get the right guidance. And like you said before, she didn't know what she needed to do. So you don't know what you don't know.
Donna Hann
Yeah. So anyway, I often say to business owners, when you're starting and growing your business, always grow it and, you know, maintain your records as if you're going to sell it one day, even if the outcome is that you don't, but you're creating value for your business as it grows, like I've sold several businesses now. And as you said, the value sometimes sits in those intangibles like it's in the systems and the processes that you have in your business so that the new owner can step in and do what you were doing and make the same amount of money because, like, that's what they buy a for. Right is to make an income.
Melissa Bush
But it's I mean, it's good. It's just good business practice anyway, because another example that I can think of is business owners having a lease of their premises and not appreciating the importance of exercising their option to renew their lease. So as you may know, if you're securing business premises, the landlord may offer you a three year lease with two three year options. So after the third, first three years, you can decide, yep, I'd like to stay in the premises for another three years. So you exercise your option to renew that lease for another three years. And again, three years later, if you wanted to stay there. So you basically entering into a nine year lease, but every three years, you've got the right to decide whether whether you want to stay or not. So I've had a number of instances over the years where clients have come to me and said, Okay, we leased these premises a few years ago, we think our options coming up, can you please have a look at it and let us know what we need to do.
Melissa Bush
There have been instances, unfortunately, where they haven't exercised their option within the specified period of time. So at least may say you need to let the landlord know at least six months before the end of the lease as to whether or not you want to take on that extra option period. Because from the landlord's perspective, they don't want get want to get to the very last day of that three year period, and then all of a sudden the tenant moves out and they don't have a tenant paying rent. So they generally require, you know, sometimes it's three months, sometimes six months or even nine months, they just need that period of time to be able to find an alternate tenant. Yeah, yeah, that tenant. And so those dates are really strict. And if a landlord doesn't particularly like that business being in those premises, it's not the landlord's prerogative to decide whether or not to grant that extra three year lease. It really is the tenants, right? So the landlord in the instance of a three by three by three, the landlord potentially could be looking at having this tenant stay in those premises for nine years. So if that tenant that the landlord's not particularly fond of, if that tenant misses their option, period, then it's a perfect excuse and a legally valid reason for the landlord to say, Well, no, sorry, you've missed your dates. You know, he will require you to vacate the premises at the end of the three years
Donna Hann
It's good to be aware of.
Melissa Bush
Oh, it is and it's so whenever we we look after leases for clients, we will at the end of that matter, give them basically a checklist with all of the important dates and please diarize these, you must make sure that you exercise your option but between these dates, and of course, I should say, Look, you only get the chance to exercise your option if you are a good tenant and you are complying with your lease obligations. So if you're behind in your rent, You're damaging the premises whatever, that the landlord has other other legal rights.
Donna Hann
If you're tired of spinning your wheels and you're hungry for success within your business, but you wish you had clear direction of how to achieve it will very soon I'm opening the doors to the Ready to Rise group coaching program. And it could be just the thing that you need to get off that hamster wheel and start making real progress. Not only that, but it'll also help you to establish a healthy work life blend between working on your business, being present with your family and taking self care time for you. For more information, go to donnahann.com and make sure that you sign up to the waitlist to get early bird access and a star Have extra bonuses get ready to rise when I opened the doors on Tuesday, the 14th of February. Now let's get back to the podcast.
Donna Hann
If you have a home based business, then what other things do you need to make sure that you have in place can we talk about like trademarks and making sure that you know you're protecting your IP?
Melissa Bush
Going off the back of what we were talking about with business premises and leases, if you are operating a home based business, the first thing that you should do is check with your local counsel as to whether or not there are any particular restrictions or requirements for where your home is located. As to whether you can operate a home based business. So it's one thing for say me to pick up my laptop and take it home and work from my my office at home. I don't have clients visiting me at home. But if you're operating a retail business, I was reading this morning about a beautician she was starting out and she wanted to have her clients come to her home. And she was getting asking for feedback online as to what she needed to do. And a lot of people were saying, Oh, you need to be careful not only about the council zoning issues, but also insurance as well. Because there's other requirements with that your your home insurance may not be sufficient to cover you for any business operations. So you know, someone could come in to get their eyebrows down and trip and fall on your front steps, you know, opens up a Pandora's Box. Really? Yes, potential liability.
Melissa Bush
But just going back to your other question about business name, etc. So when you're deciding to register your business name, and that's often like I mentioned before, Goodwill is a pretty important part of any business. There's a lot of goodwill tied up in your business name. So when you're choosing your business name, firstly, you need to really do some checks to make sure that no one else has a business name that is the same or similar to that business name that you want. And because otherwise, you could be in a situation where there is a well established business already operating under a similar business name. And if you're literally within, you know, the same geographic area, you're offering the same or similar goods or services, there could be an argument that you're essentially passing yourself off as being affiliated with that other business.
Melissa Bush
So the way to get around that for a lot of businesses that want to protect their business name is to register their business name, and perhaps also their logo or even the color and overall branding of their business, they register a trademark to protect them. So if you have a registered trademark, you nominate with IP Australia, what class of goods or services you want protection in. And then basically, you by registering that trademark, you get what's called a proprietary interest in that name. So that means that anyone else that comes along, wanting to trade under that same name, you can basically just wave your trademark registration at them and say, No, you cannot trade under that name. Or if you come across someone that is trading under that name, and it doesn't have to be an exact same name, it can be a name that's similar. If you see someone trading under that name, and you have that registered trademark, then certainly you would have every right to send what's called a cease and desist letter to them, politely asking them to cease trading under that name. And and yeah, just reminding them of their obligations.
Donna Hann
Yeah, because it's one thing to make the application and receive the trademark. But then it's another thing to actually protect it, isn't it?
Melissa Bush
Exactly, exactly. That reminds me of an example where I did have a small business owner come to me he had been trading under his business name for quite some time. He, he was approached by an overseas organization that had a registered trademark for a similar name. They sent him a cease and desist. So it came from overseas, and he came to me and he's like, but I just, I'm a small business owner, I operate out of my garage at home. Why are they worried about me? And I said, well, because there is so much value, especially for an international organization, there is so much value in their trading name, that they've got every right to try to protect it. And certainly they sent in a cease and desist. And unfortunately, here, he needed to look at what his options were either. And in that instance, sometimes you won't necessarily need to change your business name, you could enter into what's called a coexistence agreement. So I've negotiated some of those for other clients where there is a registered trademark. My clients got a similar business name. But when you looked into the actual operations, the day to day operations of the businesses involved, they really weren't competing in the same marketplace. They're in different areas. There was no risk really of my clients operations impinging on the The operation so we basically negotiate what's called a coexistence agreement. As the name suggests, it enables both of those bodies to as bodies those businesses sorry, to coexist within their respective mind. Yes.
Donna Hann
Which leads me to asking you about, like, copycats. I work with service and product based businesses, but it's mainly the product based businesses that will say to me, oh, there's this person who keep like, I create something, and I'll release it. And then two weeks later, they've got the same thing out, and it's exactly the same. Like how do you how can you protect yourself from that and your business? Is there much you can do about that? I mean, it's endearing. Right.
Melissa Bush
It is difficult because ultimately, and I should preface everything that I'm saying, by saying that I, you know, what I'm talking about is just general for general information. Yes. It's only and not intended to be legal, it's you should have been upfront. Basically, if you feel that you do have a legal issue, certainly don't necessarily rely on general advice that you hear on podcasts or that you see online, get expert legal advice and opinion, that takes into account obviously, your particular circumstances, etc. But you do see that all the time, small businesses copying each other and just stealing their ideas. Ideas is such a very difficult to protect. So if you invent something like you know that you can get patents and things like that, to cover off on unique inventions. And patents are very, very, like they're a form of intellectual property, just like trademarks, but they are. So it's such a specialized area that you really need to, if you if you are inventing something, go and speak to a patent attorney or a patent lawyer.
Melissa Bush
Not a lot of your, you know, I won't say run of the mill business lawyers, but business lawyers that assist with trademarks, not many will, will delve into that payment space because it is so specialized and unique. So if for example, and I'm just thinking off the top of my head, if you decided to open up a business and put together you know, picnic boxes or something like that, with all different types of food and picnic wares, and whatever else, and you package it up in a certain way, and then someone copies that well, then you've got to, it really comes down to well, how unique is that idea? And it more the thing that you really need to focus on is your branding as such. So it's not so much the idea behind the product. It's more so the branding that you need to focus on in the end. Yeah, I guess you know what, because there is so much of a going going around, you often hear people saying, Look, you know, imitation is the greatest form of flattery, and you just need to do what they're trying to copycat, you just need to do it a million times better.
Donna Hann
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talk about branding and how people are wanting to buy the brand from you, because they like what you do and how you do it. And it's not so much to get wrapped up in, in the smaller details of someone copying you take an endearing compliment, and just keep, keep working, keep getting better and better at what you do.
Melissa Bush
Well, if they're offering to buy your brand as well, everything's got a price on it hasn't. You know, it's really no different to you here, people registering unique domain names, because even if they're not planning to use it, it's like, well, you know, down the track, someone will see this as a valuable domain name and a brand, and they'll want to buy it from me. So yeah, the concepts are not so not so different. Yeah. Yeah.
Donna Hann
So one of my other questions I was gonna ask you about is, if you sort of just kind of talked about that sort of startup phase a little bit. If you have been in business for a couple of years, and you're like, right, I'm ready to grow, I'm ready to scale my business, take it to the next level, from a legal health standpoint, as in maintaining our own protection and make sure we're doing the right thing and that, you know, no one can steal our IP and things like that. Are there things that we need to do to keep our businesses healthy from a legal standpoint.
Melissa Bush
Well, firstly, just being just being aware that you do need to keep a check on it's no different to your own medical health. Just Just keep an eye on things and whatever. And as you get older, there's different things that you need to think about. So it's very similar with a business so I guess looking at the area of employment, so at the start, it may just be you. You don't have employees, but then as you grow, you may decide to then grow your team. Put employees on. So you just need to get an understanding from the start as to what what is involved with putting an employee on. There's there's different things like National Employment Standards that you need to be aware of Fair Work Information statements, modern awards, all the rest of it. And that's where government websites like fit the Fair Work website are really invaluable, because they do have a lot of plain English, easy to follow guidance as to different things that you need to think about. There even I'm just thinking of the Fair Work website in particular, they've got sections, they're dealing, you know, what does your issue relate to? Do you want to engage employees? Okay, click here. Do you want to deal with underperformance issues? Click here. Do you want to make someone redundant? Click here? And you know, there's templates and guides and everything?
Donna Hann
Yeah, it's a great source.
Melissa Bush
Oh, it is it is. But there's also true just general government websites like business.gov.au. And the gap, there's a whole raft of them. And they've they've all got good guidance. So like in the employment space, as you growing short, you build your team, you get employees on, but then there may be under performance issues, and redundancy issues, etc. It's just a matter of making sure that if you are going to do anything that deals with legal rights, responsibilities, obligations, make sure that you're doing it properly. Because again, I've had way too many business owners come to me, because they've terminated an employee, and the employer has lodged an unfair dismissal claim. Now from an employee's perspective, there's really nothing to nothing to lose in lodging, an unfair dismissal claim with fair work, it costs $77 to launch the application, and then it's for the employee to put a response on it goes off to conciliation, etc. It's a relatively informal process. So, yeah, you there are quite a few unfair dismissal claims that that do arise. And so in that instance, small business owners will often come to me and say, I've received an unfair dismissal claim, how do I respond to it, etc. And then unfortunately, when I look at the claim, there will be allegations of the termination or the redundancy, constituting, perhaps not it's not a genuine redundancy, or perhaps the process wasn't followed. So there is actually, for small business employees, there's a fair dismissal code that should be followed, just to ensure that you're not breaching those unfair dismissal laws. But sometimes, too, with the employee making an unfair dismissal claim, often it will open up a bit of a Pandora's box again, because there may then be allegations as to underpayment or not paying the correct entitlements, etc. And so the unfair dismissal then only becomes really one part of an overall claim, and and it could be quite damaging for the business owner. And again, it's a case of well, you don't know what you don't know. And if only that business owner had have got good advice or at least guidance from the outset, then those issues potentially could have been avoided.
Donna Hann
Yeah. It's such a good point, because as you said, the Fair Work website has got so much information that I'd direct business owners there all the time. Because if you can get all that information, you can make sure your record keeping is up to date, and you follow your systems. If termination is something that you need to be looking at, then yeah, confidence that if an unfair dismissal claim comes across your desk, there's like little risk that it's actually going to eventuate to something, I've done all the right steps. Yeah,
Melissa Bush
exactly. And one little tip I can probably share is that if, for example, you are facing an unfair dismissal claim, it's one thing to go to the Fair Work website and look at their general information about unfair dismissal and the explanation of the process, etc. But if you actually search for the term, unfair dismissal, benchbook, it will give you the bench book, which is the more comprehensive guide that the commission itself uses behind the scenes, so to speak. So we'll be it's a lot more comprehensive. There are hyperlinks in there to cases that have dealt with different types of, for example, unfair dismissal scenarios. So it's a lot more comprehensive, and it's less plain English, so it is more legalistic. But it certainly makes for interesting reading. Yeah, just if you are facing an unfair dismissal claim, and you just want to get a really good idea as to where perhaps you stand and you may not necessarily want to get a lawyer involved immediately or or at all, because yes, certainly you can be unrepresented in fair work. It's not mandatory to engage a lawyer. But yeah, if you have a look at the bench book, that will give a lot of guidance.
Donna Hann
Okay, that's a really great tip. Yeah.
Melissa Bush
And you're just unfair dismissal. It's all the other different types of issues that fair work deals with. Yeah. Yeah. Also, if you get into the bench book, you'll be able to see all the different chapters.
Donna Hann
Yeah, that's really great. And so you've also got a checklist as well, for business owners that you wanted to share, which I've downloaded. And it's really helpful. You know, there's things on the checklist that I'm like, oh, I should investigate that and have a look into that one, you know, then maybe think are the obvious things.
Melissa Bush
Exactly. It's, it's, it's a bit of a prompt. It's just it's, it's a bit of a prompt, it's, it's, even if they're, you know, because it does cover quite a broad range of areas. You know, that you may not have premises, but if you do later get premises, then at least it sort of helps you identify the types of things that you need to think about when negotiating your lease, etc.
Donna Hann
Yeah. Awesome. And so if people are wanting to download that, do you have a link for us?
Melissa Bush
Yes. So you can just go to business know how.com.au, forward slash, I think it's l. H. C, for Legal Health checklist. I've got a number of checklists on there, just the actual URL, but Yeah, l HC.
Donna Hann
Great. And so I'll make sure that that's linked in the show notes. And so can people find you on Instagram as well?
Melissa Bush
Yep, we're on Instagram. I think the handle is business.no dot how? It's right. Yeah.
Donna Hann
Yeah, perfect. Okay, well, I will link all of that into the show notes as well as your website. It's been a really interesting conversation. And I know that there may be other questions that have come up for people as they've been listening. And now that they've got your contact details, which I'll link in the show notes, there'll be able to get in touch, but definitely download that checklist because I thought it was really helpful, as you said, not just a checklist, but also a bit of a prompt to go. Oh, I haven't thought about that. I need to I need to get onto that. You know, so. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. It's been lovely talking to you.
Melissa Bush
Yeah, likewise. Thanks, Donna.
Donna Hann
Thank you for listening to this episode of The She's in Business Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook and I'd be so grateful if you could leave me a review on iTunes. Be sure to include your business name and Insta handle so I can give you a shout out to if you want to know more about what I do the programs that I offer, then head over to www dot Donna hann.com and follow me on Instagram at Donna underscore Hann underscore SIB. I hope this podcast inspires you to be courageous and take action in carving out your very own business by design, where you can avoid burnout and shine like the universe is yours.