Donna Hann
Marie Kirkpatrick is a sales superstar, and she's on a mission to help small businesses to design and optimise their sales process in a way that feels connected, authentic and aligned. Today we chat about how you can make your sales system simple, effective and aligned without feeling sleazy, and she also shares the biggest mistakes that she often sees. When working with her clients. We touch on the sales psychology, and how you can create a sales process that will make a big difference to your business.
Donna Hann
Hello, I'm Donna Hann, a business coach, and an online course creator. And this is the She's in Business podcast. You can think of me as your business bestie, who's a few steps ahead of where you are right now. As a monk fueled with ambition and determination, I've created and sold three businesses. I've learned the lessons made mistakes, and I understand the daily juggle in the hustle. I also know what it's like when relationships fray and burnout taps you on the shoulder. That was my world until I reshaped and transformed the way I ran my six figure business. Today I help women to transform their businesses and go from being the overwhelmed entrepreneur to becoming the thriving entrepreneur feeling energised, empowered and fulfilled within their business lifestyle. I want to inspire your business journey and help you to stop spinning your wheels, because I want you to burn bright instead of burning out. And I'll invite other entrepreneurs to share their real life stories too, because I want you to know that you're not alone. You can be the savvy entrepreneur that you are born to be, and enjoy the freedom to do the things and be present with the people that mean the most to you. So if you're ready to rise to the next level and build a business by design, this is the shears in business podcast for mums who are made for more.
Donna Hann
Welcome back, it's Donna Hann here your business buddy. And I am ready to deliver you another amazing episode packed full of value to help you along on your business journey. And today, I'm joined by Marika Patrick, who is a sales superstar. That's what I'm calling you. And she's here to shine some light on making more sales inside of your business. So welcome to the podcast.
Maree
Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to share more about how people can Yeah, now their sales process in their business because it can make a huge difference between success and struggle.
Donna Hann
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Let's start at the beginning. I'd love you to share your journey of being a business owner, tell us a little bit about you what you do. Why are you so passionate about all the things that you do and how you help people.
Maree
So I've been in business for just over eight years in the consulting side of it. But I originally got into business when I fell pregnant with my first son, I'd been thinking about business for years, like I was always that person. One day, I'll do it one day, I'll do it one day, I'll do it. And then as soon as I found out I was pregnant, I was just stopped in my tracks. And I thought I'm not going to be that person that has to ask for permission to go to swimming, carnival sports, carnivals, and any main events that I wanted to go to with my kids. So I found out I was pregnant and then decided while I was there that I would use all my annual leave. Knowing that I wasn't going to go back, there was no safety net there for me in my eyes. So I actually built an E commerce business up to start with, and it was based around women's health and fitness. Because I had been struggling to find energy. And just yet, I think more juggling with life. And so I was missing some key vitamins and supplements in my life. And then when I actually went to find vitamins and supplements for women, what I found was bodybuilding.com as a website, and I was like, wow, I've been in the fitness industry for many years in the past. And even me coming across bodybuilding.com was a little bit like, well, this isn't where I'm supposed to be. But my goal for that first business was to find a space that women could have a really beautiful experience, get the help that they need, at a really great price. And so I built my E commerce business while I was pregnant with my son. And they always say don't start a business when you're pregnant. I now totally agree with that advice. But I took I took the leap anyway.
Maree
And yeah, so I built up that business and then as I was growing that business, I ran into someone that I knew Many, many years ago, from the health and fitness industry, and she said to me, why are you behind an ecommerce business? And she said, What do you really want to be doing? And I said, I want to be helping people with sales. Like it's something that I'm so passionate about. I've been trained in it. For many years, I think there was just a whole heap of fee there for me, showing up being vulnerable. It's scary. What if it doesn't? Yeah, what if people that I worked with in corporate saw me and thought, Oh, she went out and did that business thing, and it didn't work out. And now she's back working somewhere else. And so there was a whole heap of fear around that for me. And so I ended up talking to one of my old clients around vitamins and supplements. And he was telling me that he got a trainer in for about seven grand for the day. And he just didn't nail it. And I was like, ah, seven grand, in a day, like, wow, could you imagine that? And so I kind of made like, he made a joke about and said, oh, you should have got me to do it. I was like, hahaha, yeah. And then I walked out the door. And I was like, that was my opportunity. I should have, yeah, yeah, I should have kind of taken that step forward. And I thought about it for days after, you know, when you've got something in your mind, and you think, Oh, I really should have, or you have that conversation over and over and over again, and you think what you would have said differently.
Maree
Anyway, I finally got the nerve to call him back a couple of days later. And when he picked up the phone, he said, I've been thinking about you. And I was like me, too, funnily enough. And so he was my first ever client, when it came to sales consulting, I ran training sessions for him and his team on how to sell and how to really build those connections and relationships with people. So that it felt good when people buy. Yeah. And so eight years later, here I am. Now, I've shut down the E commerce business, because I just couldn't juggle it all. But I've actually ended up starting a another E commerce business by chance. So a man with multi businesses, there's a lot of balls in the air.
Donna Hann
There is a lot of balls in the air. And I can completely relate to that. Because up until last the start of last year. So what are we 20 I still getting used to saying that we're in 2023. But 2022 was the first year that I wasn't also juggling two businesses. And it is so nice sometimes just to have this ball to juggle alongside kids and everything else. But yeah, I've totally been there and been doing a couple of different businesses at once. And it's tough. So hats off to
Maree
Thank you. It's, I think you've both of them weren't something that I was really passionate about, it would be a lot harder. Yeah, I don't consider what I do is work, which has its pros and cons. But yeah, showing people how to sell and how to make money in a really good authentic way. Yeah, lights me up.
Donna Hann
So ah, that's so good. And that's what I want to talk to you about today. Yes. So I would love I really want to ask you about the sales process and how you teach your clients, all of that stuff. But before we get to that good stuff, can you share with us the biggest mistake that you often see when you're working with clients when it comes to their sales process.
Maree
So there are a few mistakes, I see one of the biggest mistakes even before they get to the sales processes, people focus so much on the marketing. And so they are looking to constantly generate leads and inquiries, which is obviously great. However, if you're not converting those leads and inquiries. A it makes business a lot harder, but it's also a waste of time, energy and money from a marketing perspective. So what I say to people is, let's sort out your sales process first, and then turn on that marketing tab. So that everything that goes into your bucket has a really high chance of converting and building that relationship and nurturing and you know exactly what's going to happen to each lead as it comes through. And what's the experience you've got to have?
Maree
So that's probably the first thing that I see. Quite obviously, when it comes to the specific sales process. I see people answer questions before they actually understand what it is that their client needs. Now what I mean by that is, someone will say, Well, how can I work with you? And so what they automatically start doing is talking about their products or their services or what it is that they can do to help. What I always recommend to people is, let's start from the start. Let's ask them questions and figure out what it is that they need first, and then we can tailor our package and solutions to what it is that they're needing rather than just verbal diarrhoea and everything that we can offer them and all our services and talking about money and all that sort of stuff before we've got any idea about what exactly it is that they need.
Donna Hann
Yeah, and how you can serve them best.
Maree
Absolutely.
Donna Hann
Yeah, yeah. Interesting. And do you find that there when you work with, like, sounds like that's very much a service based kind of business that you sort of describing that? What about product based businesses when it comes to the biggest mistakes you see them make.
Maree
So from a product based business and my other businesses product base, or something that I really had to fine tune when it came to the sales process and things like that, it would be focusing too much on the features and not enough on the benefits of the product. And so when you purchase something, yes, the features are important. But a lot of the time as humans, we're thinking about what's in it for me, how does this relate to me? How does this move forward? Help me move forward? How does this fix the problem or challenge? I've got it and it doesn't even need to be a challenge. It can be as simple as, how's this going to make me feel? Like, I've spoken to retailers that do, like handbags and shoes? Now, yes, there's a practical side to handbags and shoes, right? Let's be really clear about that. But there's also a really fun, exciting element to those products as well. So yes, they have a benefit. But there's also a very big emotional tie in when it comes to that sort of stuff. But if we just focused on the features, then were losing that ability to help them enrol in the in the benefits of it and the emotional connection that they potentially have with our products as well.
Donna Hann
Yeah. 100%. And so that leads so nicely into my next question, which is all about sale psychology. So I would love for you to educate, educate us on the guess the process, the buyers psychological process that people go through when they're deciding whether to purchase or not to purchase, whether it be product or service based. What is that because I think so often, that's the piece that maybe business owners don't take the time to really learn and understand. So I'd love to be able to shed some light in that area if you could.
Maree
Perfect. I love understanding the psychology of sales and people in general. I'm the sort of weirdo that goes and watches like people watches, and I love people selling to me because I get to see what they know and how all that sort of stuff works. So from a psychology point of view, when it comes to sales, if we kind of make a long story short, there are two sides of the brain. There's your left side, and there's your right side, and one of them is very green brain, which means go yep, everything to move forward. And the other side is the logical stop side of it. And so when we are purchasing something, we deal with both sides of the brain, however, we want people to make buying decisions in the green brain. And the reason why we want to do that is because that's where our emotions, and yeah, our emotions are tied into that side of it.
Maree
If we make things in the logical brain, it's harder for us to make a decision because we can't tie in those emotions and make those decisions from a really beneficial point of view. It's very logical, very factual. And we see that if people buy in that red brain, things that tend to happen, our buyer's remorse refunds, challenging clients, let's say, if we put that nicely, and so when we sell, we want to make sure that we are ticking both sides of the brain. But we also want to make sure that our biggest when we talk about those features, that's very red brain. But when we talk about the benefits, that's very green brain, and we tie in those emotions to the features, benefits and feelings. If we just sell in the features side of it, we are just dealing with the red brain. And it our red brain tells us to stop like a red light. It says Yep. Cool, something scary here. Something's fearful. And so we don't tend to move forward in that space very well.
Donna Hann
Yeah, yeah. And so as a business owner, when we're trying to work out well, well, what's the messages? What's the what's the way that I market that? I guess, even though Yeah, you know, you said before, we need the sales process first. But in communicating what we do, what we sell, how we sell it, what makes us different, what the features and benefits are, how do we what sort of tips do you have around getting into the psychology of your ideal client or ideal customer and then creating a, you know what I'm getting to a big solution. Right, right. Yeah, exactly.
Maree
That they just throw money at us.
Donna Hann
That's exactly what, let's see that revenue rise.
Maree
Yes. So when you are getting into the brains of your ideal clients, you want to understand what their biggest challenges. What is and I know a lot of people talk about this, what's keeping them up at night? What sort of challenges are they having that they're looking for solutions for? What I see a lot of people do is build a product or a service or business around what they think people need. What they're missing is what are people actually telling you their problem is, and then solve it with that product or service. And so when it comes to digging into that marketing side of it, look at your language, what sort of language are they using? How are they living their day to day life? What does it look like, feel like? What are their biggest challenges when they're sitting on the couch at seven o'clock at night or eight o'clock at night, and kids have gone to bed, whatever that is, is what you need to be talking to. And so connect on that space. And then when you start talking about your product or services, yes, talk about the features, but don't talk about the features just on their own. For every feature, you need at least two or three benefits that link into that. And once you have those benefits that link into it, then you choose which benefit matches your ideal person that you're trying to talk to in that marketing space.
Donna Hann
Very soon, I'll be opening the doors to my signature hybrid programme Ready to Rise. An online course combined with eight weeks of small group coaching with me as your business coach, designed for women just like you who have taken the step to leap into business. And now you're ready to step into your potential and shift your business to the next level, feeling energised, confident and empowered with a plan to intentionally grow your ideal business. Over eight weeks, you'll level up your business skills, get a central business systems and strategic guidance for success. You'll finally let go of the minefield for wanting to live out your other purpose, a business that lights you up and brings you added financial freedom for the life you want to lead. Plus, you'll embrace self care to avoid burnout. Now's the time to join the waitlist. So you can scoop up the extra bonus and get early access. Go to donnahann.com forward slash course, for all the details.
Donna Hann
Let's talk about that sales funnel for one of a better word. I don't know whether that's a word that you like to use or don't but that that process in building an optimal sales process for your business, like what kind of things are essential when you're building that out to to get those conversions through?
Maree
Yeah, so I don't tend to like calling it a sales funnel. Because I feel like if if your customers are like I'm in a sales funnel, the emotion that that brings up tends to talk a lot more to the red brain feels like we're a number It feels like we're getting churned through the process. Yeah. And so for me, it's more about what is that customer journey? What does that customer journey path look like? How does it start in your business? And then how do we not just end it when it comes to the sale? How do we then keep nurturing onboarding, and creating those beautiful connections that create raving fans and referrals and all that sort of fun stuff?
Donna Hann
Yeah, and I agree that that is actually the most important part is that it's not just getting them in and getting them from that journey of being a lead to actually buying from you. It's the second part of that journey that is so important. And I think that brings you the most value in your business is that ongoing customer referral and, you know, increasing the lifetime value of your clients and things like that comes in the second part of that process?
Maree
Absolutely. I've still got clients that I worked with, like I still got my second client from my consulting back in the day. And when I, when I sit down and talk to my clients about what does that look like for them? It's about the steps along the way. It's not just oh, great. Now I've got a client on board. Fantastic. Send them the invoice and the paperwork. I can now just sit back and relax. For me. It's like what do I need to do to keep nurturing them, keep connecting with them keep delivering. And we're both going to grow as that journey goes along. So we need to adjust and change that as things expand as well. When it comes to your sales funnel in inverted commas, let's just call it that for today. For me, it's about piecing all the puzzle, all those pieces of the puzzle together and making sure that you have a nurturing and connected touch point along the way.
Maree
And making sure that your clients don't feel like they're just a number or the people on your email list aren't just a number, you're providing value, you're providing solutions to their problems, whether they're paying you or not, that level of value should still be there. It's just a little bit different behind the scenes behind the curtain. I say once they've purchased from you, they get the full suite, they get 110% of Murray, whatever you need. I'm here to help you along the way. From a front end point of view. I don't want to be that client. I don't want to be that business where my clients are like, Oh, she just kind of gives me a little bit of it and then she says things like it If you want more, click here to buy, because that doesn't feel good, either that doesn't feel connected or anything. So for me, it's like what does what do those connection points look like feel like, I also put myself through my own customer journey party, my business too, what's working, what's not working? Check out your stats in your metrics is also really important. And that needs to be done regularly so that you can see what's falling apart in that customer journey path to.
Donna Hann
Yeah, absolutely. And then you can kind of go through and kind of plug up the hole, so to speak. But if you're not, if you're not measuring, and I did do a podcast recording, about the importance of measuring, you know, all of the different indicators, I guess, in your business, whether that be your financial indicators, for what's you know, the revenue and the expenses that are coming through your business and your profit, but also looking at what are all of the different business activities that you do be that marketing or sales or onboarding, all of those things that you can get really familiar with, so that if you're looking at them, and you're reviewing them every week, or every month, and you see something that is a sudden change, you can then go in and investigate that and figure out what's going wrong to cause those results to decline in that way, or whatever it might be.
Donna Hann
And it works the other way too, right? Like, if you want to turn your marketing tab on, then you also need to be really familiar with your business as to how that then has like a flow on effect to the rest of, you know, everything else. And so yeah, I 100% agree with making sure that you are measuring and as you're going through testing, and measuring all of the different changes that maybe you're making, so that you're not, sometimes you can cannibalise parts of your business without realising it because you've put something new in. And if you're not measuring that you suddenly go, oh, how come I'm not making sales over here anymore? It's because I developed this thing. That now means that no one else needs that thing. And if did I think that through?
Maree
Yes, I totally get it. What I also tend to do with my clients is, once we set up that sales process, we actually break it down into each specific step. And so it means that we can tweak things and optimise optimise things as we go. One of my clients, we set up her full sales process. And then we set up a follow up process as well, because she found that she had a lot of lost leads, people were inquiring, and then that was it, there wasn't if they didn't buy, they kind of just fell to a dark hole. Or they went into her nurturing sequence from a regular newsletters and things like that. But for me, it was like what can we do to reengage those people. And so we had it down to tracking the emails, what they opened, how many times they opened it, what they clicked on, things like that. So we could really fine tune that process. And it increased her business, I think it gave her an extra 25% on her bottom line just from focusing on a couple of those elements. But we wouldn't have been able to know that unless we went back through the tracking and the stat side of it as well.
Donna Hann
And it's really like 25%. That's huge.
Maree
huge. And the great thing was she didn't even realise that she had made that extra 25% until the end of the month and looked at her stats, like it didn't feel any harder. It didn't feel over. You know, like when things turn up a little bit, sometimes a pressure can be a little bit full on. You didn't even realise any of that. She was like, Oh my gosh, I think we've had 25 I think it was 26% 26% increase just on tweaking a couple of those things. Yeah, changing the language and things in the thing and the way that we say it and things like that can be huge.
Donna Hann
Yeah. I know for me, I've experienced this and I know in speaking to some of my clients is a concern that comes up sometimes is the whole closing the sale in. You know that I guess that's the part that I feel a lot of people either shy away from or feel very, I don't know, it feels very icky. So any tips around closing a sale without coming across as pushy or just completely? Like getting your sales process to that point and then go okay, I'm out now I'm going to quit.
Donna Hann
Yeah. Any tips around that?
Maree
Yeah, I think it's really important to add in there that one of the steps in the sales process should actually be asking for the sale. And when I was taught to sell back in the day, they used to say ABC always be closing. And as I've gone on over the years, it felt really pushy. It felt Hasley it felt incongruent, it felt really gross, because I knew that there were times where these people weren't right for what I was trying to sell and There's just a whole heap of pressure around it. So for me, it's yes, you have to ask for the sale that is non negotiable. When it comes to sales. Sorry, everyone, it's just something you're gonna have to get comfortable with. But I think that there's better ways to do it, then considering it as closing for me, you're actually starting, like you're starting a beautiful relationship.
Maree
You're starting endless possibilities for not just you and your business, but for the person that you're helping or the person that's buying your product or services. And so that for me is really warming and yeah, I think for me,
Donna Hann
Yeah, I love that.
Maree
Yeah. And the clients that you end up with, for me, a lot of my clients have become really great mates. One of my clients said to me, other day, oh, it's really refreshing that you're the same in your personal life as you are in your business. And I was like, I'm the same person, like, I'm not changing. And so when it comes to closing, closing in inverted commas, or asking for the sale for me, it's about giving the person time to think and process once you've asked for that sale. So you presented your solution or your package or your product or your service, whatever it is for your specific business. And say something along the lines of how does that sound for you? Would you like to work together? Would you like to get started? How does that feel? And you can just tweak it depending on what feels right coming out of your mouth. When I work with people, it's very much not about scripts, it's about frameworks. I don't want you to be that Telstra person on the other end of the phone that says how are you good, thank you for asking. And you're like, Oh, you don't care. Like this is so robotic. It's gross.
Maree
So for me, it's like put that framework around yourself. But you don't need to change who you are. Just make it work for you. While otter asking for that sale. Find those words that feel comfortable, even in those uncomfortable situations. Yeah. And once you've asked for that sale, and ask the question, just stop talking. Give the person time to really process all the information you've given them to have a couple of minutes to think about it and feel what's happening for them and things like that. I see a lot of people constantly talking after they've asked for the sale, and they end up kind of talking themselves out of the sale because the person goes, Okay, yep, great, thanks. I just need to think about it. And pushes away. Yeah, because we haven't had time to go, okay, you've just given me all this information, which is great. I just need a minute to just stop for a second. And, you know, for me, it's look over my notes or see what I've written down or check in with my gut feeling and things like that, as well. So just find what feels comfortable for you. But yes, you still need to ask for the sale.
Donna Hann
Yeah. And I think too, like, even when you're in a product based business as well. There's that fine line, like I, there's a lot of women that I work with that have both product or service space. So I'm just trying to like cover all kinds of angles, because I know there's a lot of different listeners. And sometimes there'll be online, you know, online, ecommerce stores and other times it's in person. And it's, you know, sometimes tricky to know what to ask when to ask how, you know, without being pushy, you're in so much space and backing off at the right time and allowing them that thinking space and all of that kind of stuff. It's pretty complicated, isn't it? Really, when you think about it.
Maree
It can be and the real, like, I don't want to wholeheartedly agree with you. Because for me, it doesn't have to be. For me, it's putting that framework in and that sales process that is step by step by like it's a series of repeatable steps, whether you are online on an E commerce business, or you are selling face to face or on Zoom, or whatever that looks like, there is still a sales process that happens in there. There are so many times I go onto an E commerce business website, and I can't find where I'm buying something. Yeah, where do I just click the button that says buy now or add to cart? You've got to click through five or six different screens. That's not a good sales process. No need to make it really easy for people to buy and to hand over that money to you.
Donna Hann
Really frictionless. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love that. This has been a really great chat. Like there's so much more that I could ask you about all the different things but I also feel that it's important for people to go and discover you and to see what you do and how you do it in your way so if people are keen to visit your website or check you out on socials where's the best place they can find you?
Maree
So my website is Marie Kirkpatrick.com So Mar doubly E why kirkpatrick.com I've also got a really great download that may help Some of your listeners, which is Marie kirkpatrick.com, forward slash seven steps. And that's the seven step sales process that I recommend people use as a framework into their business. It will show you the parts along the journey that you need to be taking. And we'll give you a really great start if you are feeling overwhelmed with it, or you're not sure how to have those sort of conversations or kind of structure that through your business. Otherwise, you can find me on Facebook at Marie Kirkpatrick or Instagram at Marie Kirkpatrick or LinkedIn and Marie Kirkpatrick. And I share a whole heap of tips and advice and thoughts. I also recommend to people if you've got questions, just shoot me an email. I'm happy to answer them from a podcast perspective from a content perspective. Because if someone if you're thinking it, someone else is probably thinking it as well. And if I can help answer that, then even better.
Donna Hann
That's awesome. I love that you help business owners to really create that simple system, and for it to be effective and really, also aligned with your business values and your values. Because I think that's where it removes that icky Ness in the sale. Absolutely. Yeah, no, yeah. So that's been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing all of those things, and also, your seven steps framework, I think that that's going to be so very, I'm going to go check it out, too. Because anything that helps your business to grow and evolve. And, you know, sales is a big part of being a business owner. Otherwise, it's a really expensive hobby.
Maree
Yeah, so many people get into business thinking, I'm really great at this, or my product is amazing. And so everything, like build it and they will come it doesn't work like that you need to really master that skill set of sales. And sales can be such a life skill. It's something that has saved me money everywhere I've gone it's given me a really great understanding of people and understanding how they work and things like that, too. So sales, as I always say sales are sexy. Not everyone believes me, surprisingly. But I think it can, if I can teach someone to sell and to grow their business that can be absolutely life changing, especially for women.
Donna Hann
Yeah, I love that. And I couldn't agree more. Thanks so much for being on the podcast today.
Maree
Pleasure. Thanks.
Donna Hann
Thank you for listening to this episode of The She's in Business podcast. If you enjoyed it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook and I'd be so grateful if you could leave me a review on iTunes. Be sure to include your business name and Insta handle so I can give you a shout out to if you want to know more about what I do the programmes that I offer, then head over to www.donna hann.com and follow me on Instagram at donnahann_coach. I hope this podcast inspires you to be courageous and take action in carving out your very own business by design where you can avoid burnout and shine like the universe is yours.
